Secret Service Agent Tim McCarthy - The Man Who Took a Bullet for President Reagan
When bullets rang out at the Washington Hilton on March 30, 1981, Secret Service Agent Tim McCarthy made the split-second decision that defines the ultimate sacrifice in law enforcement – turning his body into a shield for President Reagan during an assassination attempt.
In this powerful Heroes Behind the Badge interview, McCarthy recounts his 50-year law enforcement career, including the moment he took a bullet to protect President Reagan from would-be assassin John Hinckley Jr. Despite suffering a serious chest wound, McCarthy returned to presidential protection duties just three months later, demonstrating the remarkable resilience that defines America's finest.
"I did what I did based upon training, not anything else," McCarthy humbly explains. His story exemplifies the courage and commitment of law enforcement professionals nationwide who stand ready to make the ultimate sacrifice.
KEY MOMENTS:
- 2:15 - The coin flip that put McCarthy on duty during the assassination attempt
- 9:42 - McCarthy's detailed account of the shooting and his protective response
- 14:25 - President Reagan's hospital room meeting with McCarthy: "What did this guy have against the Irish?"
- 21:58 - How security protocols changed after the assassination attempt
- 27:36 - McCarthy's expert analysis of recent Trump assassination attempts
Support the men and women who protect us every day. Visit citizensbehindbadge.org to learn more about our mission to counter misinformation and support law enforcement.
#HeroesBehindTheBadge #SecretService #LawEnforcementHeroes #PresidentialProtection #BackTheBlue
Transcript
Hey, good to see you again and a warm welcome back to Heroes Behind the Badge.
Speaker:We tell real stories about real cops.
Speaker:We expose the fake news about the police, and we give you the real truth.
Speaker:This podcast is brought to you by Citizens Behind the Badge, the leading
Speaker:voice of the American people in support of the men and women of law enforcement.
Speaker:For more information about how you can get involved and add your support to
Speaker:the men and women of law enforcement.
Speaker:Citizens behind the badge.org.
Speaker:That's Citizens behind the badge.org.
Speaker:I'm your host, Dennis Collins, a founding director of Citizens Behind the Badge
Speaker:and a law enforcement father, please say hello, as usual to my colleagues
Speaker:William Erfurth, that are known to his friends and some of his enemies as Billy.
Speaker:How you doing today, sir?
Speaker:I am good, and I just wanna take this opportunity to remind everyone,
Speaker:wherever you go to listen or view these podcasts, please like and
Speaker:follow so that you can be alerted.
Speaker:Every time a new show drops on the air.
Speaker:You will be the first to know you'll have a leg up on everybody.
Speaker:So subscribe, follow, and like.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:Uh, bill, by the way, as a retired Miami-Dade police Lieutenant.
Speaker:26 years of decorated service.
Speaker:He is also a founding director of Citizens Behind the Badge.
Speaker:And now Craig Floyd, our fearless leader.
Speaker:Craig is the founder, president, and CEO of Citizens Behind the Badge.
Speaker:You probably know Craig as the founding CEO Emeritus of the National
Speaker:Law Enforcement Memorial and the Police Museum in Washington, dc.
Speaker:Craig, thanks again for our fancy uniforms.
Speaker:We're getting, I'm, I'm loving these uniforms, man.
Speaker:Thanks for, uh, outfitting us here.
Speaker:We just have to get together on the uniform of the day.
Speaker:I guess?!
Speaker:We look really sharp, if I may say so, Dennis.
Speaker:Um, but, and, and you know, our brand, we have Heroes Behind the Badge podcast, and
Speaker:then we have Citizens Behind the Badge.
Speaker:The organization that produces this podcast.
Speaker:And just a reminder to everybody, if you go to our website, uh, citizens Behind
Speaker:the badge.org, uh, you're going to hear all the older podcasts that we've done.
Speaker:You're gonna see all the statements we've made about what's happening
Speaker:in law enforcement today.
Speaker:And, uh, we're working hard to, uh, end this, uh, this defund
Speaker:and defame the police movement.
Speaker:Uh, get law enforcement the resources they need and get more cops out there.
Speaker:Uh, patrolling our streets.
Speaker:Uh, we lost a lot of 'em during that defund movement, but, uh,
Speaker:thankfully they're coming back.
Speaker:Thankfully they're coming back.
Speaker:And the other thing is citizens behind the badge.
Speaker:And heroes behind the badge.
Speaker:We never forget today's hero.
Speaker:Dedicated a half century, 50 years of his life serving and protecting
Speaker:as a member of law enforcement.
Speaker:Okay?
Speaker:22 years as a Secret Service special agent, eight of those years
Speaker:on the prestigious presidential protective detail, and almost three
Speaker:decades as a police chief of the Orland Illinois Police Department.
Speaker:So like many of our heroes, their decades of distinguished and decorated
Speaker:public service is highlighted by sometimes one event on one day.
Speaker:In this gentleman's case, it was March 30th, 1981.
Speaker:President Reagan was three months into his term, he was speaking
Speaker:at the Washington Hilton Hotel.
Speaker:He finished his speech and was heading back to his car in 1.7 seconds.
Speaker:Six gunshots rang out from the small crowd outside the hotel shots
Speaker:aimed directly at President Reagan.
Speaker:Today's hero I. Secret Service agent Tim McCarthy was assigned
Speaker:to the presidential production detail on the day shift that day.
Speaker:The story goes though that it was his day off, but he lost a coin flip to one of
Speaker:his colleagues and showed up for work.
Speaker:Little did he know he would find himself in the middle of an assassination attempt.
Speaker:He'd be called upon to take the ultimate action.
Speaker:To stop an assassin's bullet from reaching their intended target for some
Speaker:of the older members of our audience, you likely will never forget those
Speaker:shocking videos we all saw at the time of that incident played over and
Speaker:over again for our younger audience.
Speaker:You're about to hear the real story from the real hero.
Speaker:Behind the badge, a very warm welcome to retired Secret Service agent
Speaker:and retired chief of the Orland Police Department, Tim McCarthy.
Speaker:Tim.
Speaker:Thanks for joining us.
Speaker:Thanks for your decades of service.
Speaker:Uh, we are delighted to have you as our guest on today's podcast,
Speaker:but j uh, Craig and Bill will have tons of questions for you.
Speaker:But you know me, I gotta ask at least one question here.
Speaker:Is it true, I've heard this story for years and I I tried to confirm it again
Speaker:before we, uh, uh, had this interview.
Speaker:Is it true that that was your day off, or was that fiction?
Speaker:Uh.
Speaker:Paul, it was not my day off.
Speaker:However, on that particular day, we had one extra agent.
Speaker:Uh, the, the president only travels in that inner perimeter with a
Speaker:certain number of agents, Uhhuh.
Speaker:We had an extra agent that day.
Speaker:So we were, two of us were both of the same rank about a sergeant, so to speak,
Speaker:and the agent in charge said, well, you're all, you've both been briefed, you're both
Speaker:ready to go, but we've got one too many.
Speaker:One would stay back.
Speaker:Now it was raining out that day.
Speaker:The car we ride in, the follow up car leaked at that time.
Speaker:It was an old nice, an old convertible type of limousine.
Speaker:So we flipped a coin and I lost, I went, as a result, I got wet among
Speaker:other things and shot at the same time.
Speaker:Now the the ancients who.
Speaker:Won the coin toss that stayed, uh, stayed back.
Speaker:An outstanding agent.
Speaker:He went on to win like $4 million in the Pennsylvania State lottery.
Speaker:So one of these people that had a horseshoe up, uh, well hit geez, a
Speaker:lucky streak, let me put it that way.
Speaker:For sure.
Speaker:Well, we are delighted to have you and delighted to honor you
Speaker:as a true hero behind the badge.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:I'll, I will share, uh, the stage now with Mr. Craig Floyd.
Speaker:Tim, um, you and I go back a ways.
Speaker:We've been together on a number of events.
Speaker:You helped us build the National Law Enforcement Museum and in 2017, uh,
Speaker:we did a, an event together called Witness to History, and we talked
Speaker:about the assassination attempt on President Reagan and your role in that.
Speaker:I. Um, and, and there was a story that came out that night, uh, I'll never
Speaker:forget it, by the host Tom Sherwood.
Speaker:He's a local news guy, and he, he told us a story about, uh, right before
Speaker:the assassination attempt, president Reagan was speaking to a group of labor
Speaker:leaders and, uh, he ended his speech.
Speaker:By asking them to please join him so that we can make America great again.
Speaker:And I, I love that story.
Speaker:Uh, usually we attribute that, uh, quote to President Trump, but
Speaker:it was in fact President Reagan that first coined that saying.
Speaker:And uh, I'd say President Trump did a pretty good job of, uh, carrying
Speaker:that on, uh, in his victory.
Speaker:Uh, his double victory, I guess we could call it in 16 and 24.
Speaker:March 30th, 1981.
Speaker:He's coming out of that speech to the Labor Union, and,
Speaker:uh, everything seemed fine.
Speaker:Uh, I, I guess in hindsight we're all a little surprised that the public was
Speaker:allowed so close to President Reagan, just a matter of a few feet where, uh,
Speaker:John Hinkley and, and others had gathered that day as President Reagan was leaving.
Speaker:Um, pick it up where, um, you know, you're now on duty.
Speaker:Obviously you've covered that part of the story.
Speaker:Um, and how in the world did we allow the public that close, and how was he able to
Speaker:get those shots off in, in rapid fashion and how you reacted the way you did.
Speaker:Uh, take us through those moments if you would.
Speaker:Well, let me, uh, start about, uh, Craig, you brought up a great point that
Speaker:has often been overlooked of why the.
Speaker:General public was, was allowed to be so close.
Speaker:And that was a top of conversation, uh, for a long time in the Secret Service.
Speaker:Why we were not using metal detectors, you know, they were pretty common at the time,
Speaker:uh, being used at airports, uh, major events, but we were not using them and
Speaker:I don't have any firsthand information.
Speaker:We asked about it, but we were told.
Speaker:Um, the story goes that during the past administrations, including
Speaker:the Reagan administration, that they didn't want it to look like.
Speaker:A siege atmosphere around the president.
Speaker:Well, every day cards and letters come into the White House.
Speaker:People are being interviewed on the street who have made
Speaker:threats against the President.
Speaker:So frankly, it's a mystery to me this day why we didn't have them, other
Speaker:than the stories anecdotally that, uh, they didn't want it to appear to be a
Speaker:siege atmosphere around the president.
Speaker:Now, the day after this happened, and I give the credit to Mrs. Reagan.
Speaker:That I'm told, uh, let it be known that metal detectors will
Speaker:be used from here on in to screen.
Speaker:Everyone that comes in contact with the president.
Speaker:And from that time on, after he got outta the hospital, anyone who came
Speaker:in close proximity to the president went through a metal detector.
Speaker:Now I'll tell you, it's no coincidence since March 30th, 1981, that the
Speaker:historic assassin being the lone gunman.
Speaker:Uh, John Hinckley, lone gunman that we haven't had an assassination
Speaker:attempt by the lone gunman.
Speaker:So metal detectors used properly in the uniform division of the
Speaker:Secret Service, handles them.
Speaker:Very professional, very good at what they do.
Speaker:They're not foolproof, but they're, they can be pretty close.
Speaker:I don't believe it's, it's not a coincidence that we haven't had
Speaker:an assassination attempt since the introduction of the metal detectors.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:That's as much as I really know about why or why not.
Speaker:We were not using metal detectors at the time.
Speaker:If, and they can be used anywhere.
Speaker:They operate on batteries, generators, so you can be in the middle of a farm
Speaker:field and still use metal detectors.
Speaker:You know, there's, uh, they're very versatile.
Speaker:There's so many new models now that, uh, are, have AI capability.
Speaker:Are above and beyond just a simple metal detector.
Speaker:Uh, but going back to that day, Craig, it was.
Speaker:Uh, the president was speaking to the building trade unions, uh,
Speaker:many of whom are from Chicago.
Speaker:Friends of mine in particular, the Illinois delegation was right up
Speaker:front of the president since he was from originally from Illinois.
Speaker:Um, if you read his diary, which he kept, he didn't think he did too well
Speaker:at that speech, but it, it really went over well by all accounts.
Speaker:Now, naturally, he was a Republican and the, and the labor unions are.
Speaker:Uh, appeared to be more democratic in nature.
Speaker:But, you know, I was there and it was, uh, got a rousing applause and, you know, uh,
Speaker:you know, his economic agenda turned out to be good for the country, both for labor
Speaker:and management from what I, I recall.
Speaker:But anyway, he gave a speech.
Speaker:We were going back outside now, remember the president, he'd only
Speaker:been in office for a couple of months.
Speaker:He was on a very, very tight schedule, so there was no information when we did
Speaker:our briefings that he'd work a rope line.
Speaker:It was right back to the limo, back to the White House.
Speaker:So we got outside, uh, we were heading towards the armored car.
Speaker:Uh, part of my responsibility in the position I was in was to make
Speaker:sure that that car door was open.
Speaker:It was also the responsibility of the site advance agent.
Speaker:It was open as it was supposed to be, and we were approaching the car, and
Speaker:you have to have your head on a bit of a swivel because even though I.
Speaker:The briefing was going straight to the car, no rope lines.
Speaker:You never know if that's gonna happen or not, and everyone is naturally
Speaker:yelling, Mr. President, Mr. President.
Speaker:So I looked at the president to try to get an idea what he was doing, looked
Speaker:back at the crowd and just in be as we were within feet of the, the, the
Speaker:protection of the armored car, as well as the armored door of the car, which
Speaker:opened backwards on that older model car.
Speaker:Uh, John Hinkley pushed himself forward and fired his.
Speaker:Six rounds in about one and a half, uh, one and one and a half seconds.
Speaker:And that was out of a revolver, uh, not out of a, a pistol.
Speaker:And he hit four people.
Speaker:And, uh, you know, um, Tom Delahanty was hit in the back of the neck.
Speaker:Tim Brady was hit literally between the eyes on his forehead.
Speaker:Later killed him.
Speaker:But however, John Hinkley was found not guilty by reason of insanity.
Speaker:So even though it became a homicide, he could not never be tried for it.
Speaker:Um, I was hit in the right chest and the president was hit under the left armpit
Speaker:by the fifth round that ricocheted off the right rear quarter panel of the car.
Speaker:Jerry Power and Ray Shaddock were pushing the president into the armored car.
Speaker:He had his hands out in front of him to cushion the blow.
Speaker:And that ricochet round hit him under the left armpit.
Speaker:And it was many years later when the a MA, the American Medical
Speaker:Association actually released all of the medical records to show how close
Speaker:the president actually came to death.
Speaker:Uh, you know, it, uh, during his, uh, time in the emergency room and
Speaker:so forth, you know, there were some, uh, moments when he was in very,
Speaker:very critical, uh, uh, condition.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:I was taken to George Washington Hospital, along with Jim Brady and the president,
Speaker:Tom Delahanty went to Washington Metro and the, uh, metropolitan Police,
Speaker:that's where they take injured police.
Speaker:Uh, and it's one of those hospitals that sure as heck knows how to deal with bullet
Speaker:wounds, uh, as does George Washington.
Speaker:But that was their protocol to go there.
Speaker:So we were all treated, and of course, Jim Brady was the most seriously injured.
Speaker:Tom Delehanty retired as a result of, of the injury to his neck.
Speaker:Uh, I was back on duty in about, uh, uh, three months, uh, back
Speaker:onto the Presidential protective Division, and of course, Jim Brady
Speaker:was disabled for the rest of his life.
Speaker:And it was only a few years ago that his injuries led to his death.
Speaker:So Tim, a, a, a quick question about that.
Speaker:So you and the president were both taken to the same hospital and
Speaker:their stories about the fact that you were relatively close to each
Speaker:other during, during recovery.
Speaker:How quickly did he recover versus you recover and when
Speaker:you were both finally released?
Speaker:Well, I was out of the hospital, um, bill in about 11 days.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Uh, and then recovered at home.
Speaker:And naturally I had to get back to a level of physical fitness to pass the physical
Speaker:agility test, you know, the running and jumping and all that type of thing.
Speaker:And, uh, my surgery required, you know, cutting, uh, a scar, you
Speaker:know, from right down your sternum, down to your, below your waist.
Speaker:So they cut through all of the, uh, you know, stomach
Speaker:muscles and things like that.
Speaker:So it took a while.
Speaker:For me to recover.
Speaker:Uh, the president, uh, was stayed in the hospital a little bit longer, uh,
Speaker:but he, uh, began, it was less than a month later, as I recall that he
Speaker:was, you know, his, he was starting to, uh, uh, have a full schedule.
Speaker:So the recovery was quick.
Speaker:The GW doctors were outstanding.
Speaker:Um, and I always kid around, people ask me, so who got the best doctors there?
Speaker:Uh, and we all got outstanding, uh, medical treatment as, as evidenced
Speaker:by the fact I was out in 11 days.
Speaker:Now, Jim Brady, they did everything they, they could for Jim, but the, you
Speaker:know, taken around to the forehead is, is catastrophic under any circumstances.
Speaker:And of course, as we know, he was disabled the rest of his life.
Speaker:The, um, uh, I remember at the witness to history event, a, a very,
Speaker:uh, interesting, uh, story came out.
Speaker:You told, uh, you were getting ready to be discharged from the hospital,
Speaker:and President Reagan summoned you down to, uh, his hospital room, uh, for
Speaker:a meeting with you and your family.
Speaker:I, I wish you'd, uh, recollect that for our viewers and listeners.
Speaker:Well, Craig was on my last day in the hospital and I was packing
Speaker:up, uh, getting ready to go, and I had two children at that time.
Speaker:We had a third one born later.
Speaker:Uh, and my wife and I and the two kids I. I got a, a call, the president
Speaker:would like to see you up in his room.
Speaker:And that sounded a bit like an order to me.
Speaker:And, uh, we marched on up there and met with the president.
Speaker:Mrs. Reagan was there.
Speaker:His, the windows on his, um, hospital room now had armored glass, so he really, uh,
Speaker:before the time of water, white glass.
Speaker:So it was distorted a bit and he was.
Speaker:Complaining a little bit about, you know, it's my first spring in, uh, Washington DC
Speaker:and the cherry blossoms, you know, uh, DC is known for that and I'm gonna miss that.
Speaker:So we had a nice conversation.
Speaker:Two of my kids, they, the president was still hooked up to a lot of things that I
Speaker:was hooked up to, you know, flashing red lights and green lights and so forth that
Speaker:would attract the attention of young kids.
Speaker:And it was attracting the attention of my kids who wanna
Speaker:go play with those machines.
Speaker:They thought they were toys rather than medical instruments.
Speaker:So we were having a great conversation.
Speaker:The president was talking about how we were gonna, uh, get together
Speaker:for dinner, you know, and a lot of, I. Just wonderful conversation.
Speaker:Him, you know, you know, saying, you know, thanks for doing your job that day, along
Speaker:with others that did their job well too.
Speaker:But my wife, no, was getting very nervous, noticing the kids, you know,
Speaker:paying so much attention to these instruments connected to the president,
Speaker:and I would see she was getting nervous.
Speaker:So he, uh, all of a sudden she, you know, well, we better get going.
Speaker:And it was, uh, we had great conversation with the president, so we're just heading
Speaker:out the, the door when the president stopped and said, Hey, Tim, wait a minute.
Speaker:Listen, it was Reagan, McCarthy, Brady, Dhani.
Speaker:What the hell did this guy have against the Irish?
Speaker:And, and I think the moral of that story was, you know, in critical incident
Speaker:trauma, there's a theory that people that go through a critical incident
Speaker:can, uh, a third of the people can never go back to their job again.
Speaker:And, and perform the way they once did another third, third,
Speaker:it only mildly affects them.
Speaker:And another third, it doesn't affect them at all.
Speaker:And the president was a great example that he was able to find
Speaker:humor, uh, and some good in what was a terrible, terrible tragedy.
Speaker:So that was a great example for me.
Speaker:And one of the reasons, and you know, my father was a sergeant in the Chicago
Speaker:Police Department, so, and all of our neighborhood where police are
Speaker:fire in the south side of Chicago.
Speaker:So this type of thing was, was not unheard of.
Speaker:Uh, growing up though, I never thought it would happen to me, and, but he was
Speaker:a great example of how to, you know, get back on your feet and get back on the job.
Speaker:And, uh, you know, I was only about 31 years old at the time and I wasn't
Speaker:ready to, I guarantee I wasn't ready to retire by any stretch of the imagination.
Speaker:And, uh, so, uh, went through recovery rehab and was back on
Speaker:a job about three months later.
Speaker:After that.
Speaker:I mean, and oftentimes in different agencies, after you're involved in a
Speaker:shooting situation or wounded or critical incident, you get a nice cushy position
Speaker:after that, what happened for you?
Speaker:No, there was no cushy position.
Speaker:Uh, went back on the detail, I think on midnights by the way.
Speaker:And, uh, right back into it, it was a little bit uncomfortable
Speaker:getting back in the saddle again, so to speak, just to, uh, you know.
Speaker:I, I was, I wasn't, you know, people were giving me a lot of credit and so
Speaker:forth, but I wasn't Superman before that time, and I certainly wasn't afterwards.
Speaker:So, uh, I did what I did based upon training, uh, not anything else.
Speaker:So, but I was happy to get back, back to work.
Speaker:Uh, you know, I, I. You know, I loved what I was doing.
Speaker:It was, uh, so interesting, so challenging, uh, along the way too
Speaker:that, uh, you know, talking to my parents and everyone, there was no,
Speaker:there was no doubt that as soon as I was ready, I was going back to work.
Speaker:And quite frankly, my wife, I think, was happy to get me back
Speaker:to work and get out of the house.
Speaker:So, yeah.
Speaker:So did you ever have that dinner of us that are married?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Did, did you ever end up having that dinner with Reagan?
Speaker:And, and how, uh, how did the Reagans and everyone.
Speaker:Treat you thereafter?
Speaker:Well, yes we did.
Speaker:And it was on St. Patrick's Day.
Speaker:Now I'm still a, an agent on the, just an agent.
Speaker:Uh, probably the, as a grade 13, you were the rank of, of a sergeant basically.
Speaker:So my wife and I were in both invited to a St. Patrick's
Speaker:Day dinner at the White House.
Speaker:I sat at a table with the president, tip O'Neill, other high level politicians.
Speaker:I believe John Wayne or and other Hollywood actors, my wife was at a table
Speaker:with Mrs. Reagan, m O'Hara and others.
Speaker:Um.
Speaker:It was great.
Speaker:You know, they came around.
Speaker:Would you like a beverage, sir? Well, I would've loved to have had a beer,
Speaker:but naturally I wasn't going there.
Speaker:Uh, and it was a wonderful, wonderful time and, uh, uh, but it was, you know, here
Speaker:are all my colleagues who are, you know, working and I'm there at this dinner.
Speaker:So, but it, it was wonderful.
Speaker:Uh, had many other opportunities to interact with the president
Speaker:and Mrs. Reagan and on my.
Speaker:Second, uh, you know, I did four years a year with President Carter.
Speaker:Three with President Reagan was transferred back to Chicago and then
Speaker:transferred back again for three more years with President Reagan
Speaker:and a year with President Bush.
Speaker:And, uh, on my second tour, one of my supervisory responsibilities was, uh.
Speaker:Mrs. Reagan's detail, uh, to, uh, along with several, uh, training and
Speaker:the transportation section, and of course primarily with the president.
Speaker:Um, and we had many.
Speaker:Conversations with Mrs. Reagan up on the second floor of the residence,
Speaker:uh, to talk about different things, largely operational,
Speaker:uh, but, you know, occasionally personal things would come up too.
Speaker:So, um, we became pretty close.
Speaker:Um, I, of course was at, uh, president Reagan's funeral and I was
Speaker:at Mrs. Reagan's funeral as well.
Speaker:So it was a interesting, uh, eight years under presidential protective division.
Speaker:Um, it, it's, it's very tough.
Speaker:Because the amount of travel, the time away, shift work, things of that nature.
Speaker:Uh, it's a tough assignment, but, uh, it's one that, um, I,
Speaker:I'll give you a short story.
Speaker:Um, from time to time we were, we were allowed to give tours of the
Speaker:West Wing when the president was, uh.
Speaker:Away from typically a camp David or away.
Speaker:So you do have days off somewhere and uh, you don't always, uh, every
Speaker:day you're not with the president.
Speaker:So you get requests from time to time from your fellow agents, Hey, I
Speaker:got some people coming in from town.
Speaker:Could you meet 'em down there and just take 'em on a quick tour of
Speaker:the West Wing that allows 'em to see the Oval Office in the cabinet room.
Speaker:So, uh, uh, I did it for one of my fellow agents and it was a couple
Speaker:from, uh, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
Speaker:Nice gentleman with his family, three or four people, they went through
Speaker:the metal detectors and everything and so forth and name checked.
Speaker:And, uh, took him on a quick tour of the West Wing.
Speaker:And, uh, we came out and, uh, he turned to me and he said, you know,
Speaker:Tim, he said, uh, uh, I've got many millions of dollars I own.
Speaker:Numerous companies and, and he was letting me know how wealthy,
Speaker:rich, maybe influential he was.
Speaker:Not in a bad way because he said, but you know what?
Speaker:You've got that badge on.
Speaker:You can go right into that Oval office and you can go right into this White
Speaker:House complex and I can't do that.
Speaker:And he says, boy, it's really, and he was doing it just re remarking, you know, of
Speaker:reminding me and others, what a privilege.
Speaker:It's a tough job, don't get me wrong.
Speaker:But the privilege is extended to you as a result of that position.
Speaker:So he wasn't bragging by any means, he was just, you know, making a comparison.
Speaker:Um, I, I wanna go back a bit to the shooting itself.
Speaker:Um, I was struck by the fact that when I met you, uh, back in 2017, we were talking
Speaker:about this incident and you remarked that, you know, here your job is to take
Speaker:a bullet, uh, if, if necessary, to protect the president of the United States.
Speaker:Yet you were not wearing a bullet resistant vest.
Speaker:Um, I'm, I'm, that's one of my pet peeves.
Speaker:Every officer needs to be wearing his vest.
Speaker:Every officer needs to be wearing their seatbelt when driving a vehicle.
Speaker:Um, and a lot of 'em don't.
Speaker:And, uh, back in 1981, it might not have been as, uh, popular as
Speaker:it is today among law enforcement, but you were not wearing your vest.
Speaker:And I, I'm just curious as to why, and has that changed over the years?
Speaker:Well, my wife asked that too, Craig, why I wasn't wearing it that day.
Speaker:And we were all fitted with vests.
Speaker:We had them.
Speaker:Now the vests back then in 81 aren't anywhere near as good as the ones we have
Speaker:now in 2025 that are, uh, more flexible.
Speaker:And ours were, were form fitted, but now they're even more
Speaker:form fitted, more flexible.
Speaker:Not quite as hot, but they're hot under any circumstances.
Speaker:So the policy at that time was that you didn't wear them, that you could wear
Speaker:24 7 if you wanted to, but it was only required if there was adverse intelligence
Speaker:information or on foreign trips.
Speaker:So, no, I didn't have it on that day.
Speaker:There was no intelligence to indicate anything outta the ordinary.
Speaker:In fact, no one had him on that day, and we had bulletproof vests for the
Speaker:president too, by the way, of every type of garment that you can imagine.
Speaker:After that, it became mandatory on almost all occasions to wear it.
Speaker:Uh, but they weren't quite as, they're never gonna be really comfortable.
Speaker:But, uh, you know, they weren't flexible at all at that time.
Speaker:Uh, probably weren't nearly as form fitted as they are now.
Speaker:But no, it wasn't the policy to wear them on all occasions.
Speaker:And on that occasion, I was not wearing it.
Speaker:And, uh, if I had had that on, I would've, uh, it, uh, it would've been.
Speaker:The round would've never been, it would've been inconsequential at, at totally
Speaker:Have there been other policy changes, Tim, uh, since that incident, uh, you
Speaker:mentioned the metal detectors being used.
Speaker:Uh, anything else that comes to mind that's done differently today
Speaker:than back in that I. Uh, 1981?
Speaker:The counter assault teams were on, on site all the time and in the motorcade.
Speaker:Uh, it wasn't long after that that Anwar Sadat was killed by his
Speaker:own military in a very organized assault and af and that has changed.
Speaker:I. And then there's been other, uh, changes in the advance work that I'm,
Speaker:I'm not gonna get into Craig, because it's sure things that need not be, uh,
Speaker:released, but there's been other changes in the advance work that's being done,
Speaker:how it's being done, how the crowds are being monitored and things of that nature.
Speaker:Tim, you did mention earlier about how there hasn't been another assassination
Speaker:attempt since the implementation of the metal metal detectors on the president.
Speaker:On the president, yeah.
Speaker:On, on the president.
Speaker:But let's, let's talk about, uh, well, I guess he was the
Speaker:president elect then, right?
Speaker:For Trump and those two circumstances that everybody's familiar with, I mean, those
Speaker:people, uh, in both situations weren't.
Speaker:Part of a crowd or near the president where they would've gone through,
Speaker:uh, a metal detector obviously, but, but, uh, let's get your insight and
Speaker:thoughts about those two situations.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:Butler was a complete failure.
Speaker:Uh, while there is a distinct perimeter, which is set up largely
Speaker:for handguns using metal detectors, any area that the president is in.
Speaker:The secure area is infinite It.
Speaker:It doesn't stop at a fence.
Speaker:It doesn't stop anywhere.
Speaker:That's why you have counter sniper teams up there, which.
Speaker:I was surprised, frankly, as at that time he was a former president, a
Speaker:candidate but not a president-elect.
Speaker:And they did use metal detectors there, but the perimeter doesn't end at the
Speaker:fence line or at the perimeter, uh, of where people are being screened.
Speaker:And that's why you have counter sniper teams.
Speaker:And a simple failure was not posting that building of putting someone on it.
Speaker:And it appears to me, and I saw the report that was done, pardon me,
Speaker:that they relied upon the counter sniper team to cover the building.
Speaker:That's not their role to cover the building.
Speaker:Their role is to, uh, react to a threat on the building, but
Speaker:it should have been covered.
Speaker:And it was not simple, uh, mis uh, a catastrophic mistake that
Speaker:should have never happened.
Speaker:And the.
Speaker:Uh, the advanced agents, you know, there's, I haven't seen the consequences
Speaker:yet for it, but it was a failure and it was a, it was a failure that
Speaker:should never, ever have happened.
Speaker:The building and any other building within reasonable range should have
Speaker:been posted and secured, didn't happen.
Speaker:And there was other buildings, I think there was a water tower
Speaker:that wasn't posted either, so it was a failure, plain and simple.
Speaker:So what, what, what about the communications?
Speaker:You know, when, when, when I was working our SRT teams and Dignitary Protection
Speaker:people would work with the SE Secret Service in and around Miami all the time.
Speaker:When people would come in and, and we were al it was always
Speaker:linked up with communications.
Speaker:You could communicate directly back and forth.
Speaker:And, you know, even, uh, in Trump's first.
Speaker:Presidency.
Speaker:I had, uh, been requested and had the opportunity to drive in his
Speaker:motorcade on a couple occasions.
Speaker:So, you know, I saw the communications and so that, that whole thing in
Speaker:Butler, I was just surprised how there was a lack of radio communications
Speaker:and, and the passing of the buck.
Speaker:I just, uh, didn't understand all that.
Speaker:It was not the, uh, presentations by the former director and the.
Speaker:Uh, interim director.
Speaker:Were, were not our best days.
Speaker:Uh, but communications were totally flawed as well.
Speaker:Now, as you know, bill, everyone can't be on the same channel.
Speaker:You, you know, when a, when a incident takes place, you know,
Speaker:communications break down.
Speaker:But what should have happened is that they sh the, uh, communications should
Speaker:have been an integrated communication center where everyone is there.
Speaker:The sheriff, the city sheriff, secret Service.
Speaker:Everyone in that room, they don't have to be on top of each other.
Speaker:So, so information is shared.
Speaker:You're, you're 10 or 20 feet apart, we just got information.
Speaker:You just walk over and give it to your counterpart.
Speaker:Uh, being on the same frequency.
Speaker:If something happens, communications break down.
Speaker:So that's what should have happened.
Speaker:And apparently that didn't happen either.
Speaker:And you know, there was, uh, you know, there's information about
Speaker:someone with a range finder, and I know they did finally get it out.
Speaker:It didn't get out in a timely fashion, and they never really put all the, the,
Speaker:the dots together of what was happening.
Speaker:So there was a breakdown in communications that might've prevented
Speaker:this, and there was a breakdown in the advance that would've prevented it.
Speaker:Uh, in my view.
Speaker:There was also a breakdown.
Speaker:They did have the drone technology there and it wasn't working, so they
Speaker:would've been able to detect the drone.
Speaker:It didn't work, so they weren't able to detect that it was there.
Speaker:Um, so there was multiple breakdowns, but the biggest one was if someone
Speaker:had been posted on that building, in spite of all the other mistakes
Speaker:that were made, it would've largely probably prevented it or there would've
Speaker:been a shootout between, uh, the gunman and the officer posted there.
Speaker:So, uh, total breakdown, lot of inexperience.
Speaker:Um.
Speaker:Uh, a lot of inexperienced agents there that might've been thrust into roles
Speaker:that they really weren't prepared for.
Speaker:Um, so, uh, getting over to West Palm
Speaker:while we, we had weeks before we had Butler, now we just had one assassination
Speaker:attempt and it appears to me that they.
Speaker:Uh, the president goes golfing almost every Sunday.
Speaker:Everybody knows it.
Speaker:I know it, you know it, everyone knows it.
Speaker:If he's in, in West Palm, he's going golfing on Sunday to his golf course.
Speaker:Um, so we have this person that gets there 12 hours ahead of time
Speaker:and plants himself in the bushes.
Speaker:There is no one covering that roadway next to it.
Speaker:It should have been blocked off.
Speaker:Or at least posted with officers, agents, or both.
Speaker:And that wasn't done and they acted as if it was an off the record movement.
Speaker:And off the record, movements have an element of security connected to them
Speaker:if no one knows they're going there.
Speaker:But with everyone knows that former President Trump golfs on Sunday and they
Speaker:had a golf cart ahead of the president.
Speaker:So, you know, um, golf courses are measured in yards.
Speaker:Not feet.
Speaker:And we know pistols.
Speaker:You know, we're, we're pretty good up to about 25 yards.
Speaker:Some, some of our colleagues are good further than that.
Speaker:And I don't know quite how far away he was from, um, the president, but
Speaker:the agent, as far as I know, that engaged him and, and really did a
Speaker:superb job spotting him, engaging him.
Speaker:As far as I know, he engaged him with his pistol.
Speaker:And, uh, it would've been a lot better off if he was engaging him with an M
Speaker:four, and I am curious why he didn't have one in my police department.
Speaker:We got m fours 25 years ago.
Speaker:For patrol officers, you had to qualify, of course, and as far as I
Speaker:know, he engaged him with a pistol.
Speaker:But why?
Speaker:It was treated as an off the record impromptu movement, literally weeks
Speaker:after an assassination attempt.
Speaker:That road wasn't, if nothing else, while he was on the, the holes adjacent
Speaker:to a pub, uh, a public highway, they should have been blocked off.
Speaker:Uh, they should have been blocked off and posted in my view, and
Speaker:they were not so mistakes again.
Speaker:And I haven't seen the reports, so I don't know much about exactly why it wasn't.
Speaker:Who is responsible for, you know, deciding that an off the record, that this should
Speaker:be treated as an off the record movement.
Speaker:So haven't seen the report on that yet and waiting for it to come out.
Speaker:What remarkable insights from Tim McCarthy on both the 1981 Reagan assassination
Speaker:attempt and the recent incidents involving former President Trump.
Speaker:Tim's expert analysis highlights how security protocols have evolved
Speaker:and where they still fall short.
Speaker:In part two of our conversation, we'll explore Tim's perspective
Speaker:on Secret Service leadership.
Speaker:We'll discuss the controversy or release of John Hinckley Jr and
Speaker:we'll hear about his impressive 26 year career as a police chief.
Speaker:You won't want to miss Tim's unique insights.
Speaker:On the challenges facing law enforcement today drawn from his half century of
Speaker:service, join us for the conclusion of our conversation with a true
Speaker:Hero Behind the Badge, tim McCarthy.
Speaker:This is Dennis Collins for Heroes Behind the Badge, brought to you
Speaker:by Citizens Behind the Badge.
