Episode 5

full
Published on:

11th Mar 2025

The Hidden Crisis: How This Former Officer Nearly Became Another Police Suicide Statistic

We confront the hidden epidemic of police suicide with retired officer David Berez. After 34 years in emergency services with the East Windsor Police Department, David courageously shares how he nearly became another statistic—sitting in his patrol car with his service weapon, prevented from taking his life only by one timely call

Police officers are 54% more likely than civilians to die by suicide, and David reveals the neurological impact of experiencing hundreds of traumatic incidents throughout a law enforcement career. "I lost the ability to feel love," he explains, describing how the job transformed him. "I didn't know how to hug my kids and mean it."

Now a Master Resiliency Trainer with a master's degree from the University of Pennsylvania in Applied Positive Psychology, David offers evidence-based strategies for building officer resilience using the PERMA model (Positive emotions, Engagement, Relationships, Meaning, Accomplishment).

This essential conversation addresses the alarming reality that the average police officer beyond age 50 will live only 7.5 years compared to the civilian average of 30-35 years. David's journey from crisis to becoming an advocate for officer wellness provides crucial insights for departments, officers, and families navigating the psychological toll of law enforcement service.

Join hosts Craig Floyd, Bill Erfurth, and Dennis Collins as they explore this critical issue affecting the brave men and women who protect our communities every day.

#PoliceSuicidePrevention #OfficerWellness #BehindTheBadge #LawEnforcementResilience

Transcript
Dennis Collins:

Glad to see you again.

Dennis Collins:

Thanks for coming back and a warm welcome to the Heroes Behind

Dennis Collins:

the Badge podcast, where we tell real stories about real cops.

Dennis Collins:

We expose the fake news about police and we bring you the real truth.

Dennis Collins:

This podcast is brought to you by citizens behind the badge, the leading

Dennis Collins:

voice of the American people in support of the men and women of law enforcement.

Dennis Collins:

CBB, citizensbehindthebadge.org, citizensbehindthebadge.org for more information.

Dennis Collins:

I'm Dennis Collins.

Dennis Collins:

I'm your host.

Dennis Collins:

I'm one of the founding board members of Citizens Behind the Badge.

Dennis Collins:

I'm joined today by my colleagues Bill Erfurth and Craig Floyd.

Dennis Collins:

Bill Erfurth.

Dennis Collins:

He's also a founding board member of Citizens Behind the Badge.

Dennis Collins:

He's a retired Miami Dade police lieutenant with 26 years of decorated service.

Dennis Collins:

And Craig Floyd is our founder, our president, and the CEO of Citizens Behind the Badge.

Dennis Collins:

You probably know Craig more about his role as the founding

Dennis Collins:

CEO emeritus of the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial.

Dennis Collins:

so today, Craig.

Dennis Collins:

And Bill, we'll be talking to our very special guest.

Dennis Collins:

We try to bring again, the real Heroes Behind the Badge to this program.

Dennis Collins:

And we have one today, heroes come in all different shapes and sizes.

Dennis Collins:

And today our hero, his name is David Berez and David to this very day is still earning his badge every day.

Dennis Collins:

David's a husband, a father, a public servant.

Dennis Collins:

he retired more than 20 years ago.

Dennis Collins:

With the East Windsor, New Jersey police department, he has total of 34 years in emergency, services.

Dennis Collins:

He did volunteer EMS work.

Dennis Collins:

He served as the coordinator for the office of emergency management in this community.

Dennis Collins:

He's lived a life of service.

Dennis Collins:

He is a true public servant.

Dennis Collins:

After retirement.

Dennis Collins:

He decided to take another path.

Dennis Collins:

One of the things he has done, which a lot of people aspire to, but very few people ever complete

Dennis Collins:

is a book, a resilient life, a cop's journey in pursuit of purpose.

Dennis Collins:

This all springs from his lifelong desire to help.

Dennis Collins:

Other people, he has formed a company that he works.

Dennis Collins:

he is the president of the company.

Dennis Collins:

he is a master resiliency trainer, a certified master resiliency trainer.

Dennis Collins:

He is also has earned his master's degree from the university of Pennsylvania and applied for.

Dennis Collins:

Positive psychology, throughout his career, he's received many awards and accolades.

Dennis Collins:

He's a highly decorated public servant, but I think the most interesting thing about David is

Dennis Collins:

his vulnerability, his transparency, his willingness to tell difficult personal stories about his journey.

Dennis Collins:

And his career in law enforcement.

Dennis Collins:

And I think one of the most staggering statistics, Oh, and I don't want to forget to mention this.

Dennis Collins:

he, since, since 2022 has been a member of the citizens behind the badge law enforcement advisory council.

Dennis Collins:

We respect his opinion on so many things, particularly on the mental,

Dennis Collins:

the, hidden mental health issues that are occurring today in law enforcement.

Dennis Collins:

David, I welcome you.

Dennis Collins:

Glad to have you.

Dennis Collins:

Thanks for taking time.

Dennis Collins:

This issue that we're going to discuss today.

Dennis Collins:

It's mysterious, it's unspoken, it's hidden.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

And I, being a law enforcement parent and someone who has gone through some of the difficulties that you

Dennis Collins:

have gone through and more, I have a particular personal interest in what you're talking about because it is.

Dennis Collins:

Almost an epidemic.

Dennis Collins:

I read some stats, I think, in your book that shocked me.

Dennis Collins:

Police officers are more likely to die by suicide than a line of duty death.

Dennis Collins:

the line of duty deaths are hyped.

Dennis Collins:

They're, memorialized as they should be in the media, but death by suicide.

Dennis Collins:

It's a secret, it's a stigma.

Dennis Collins:

And when I learned this floored me.

Dennis Collins:

Law enforcement officers are 54 percent more likely than the general population to die by suicide.

Dennis Collins:

That floored me.

Dennis Collins:

That's crazy.

Dennis Collins:

So let's start off today, with a question.

Dennis Collins:

As a subject matter expert in this, what the hell is going on?

Dennis Collins:

this is, this shouldn't be what's going on, David.

David Berez:

So there's a lot going on right at the same time, we're not doing anything about it.

David Berez:

So the more problem persists without intervention, the greater the problem becomes.

David Berez:

So yes, that, you are 3.

David Berez:

8 times more likely to die by your own hand than you are by a suspect on the street.

David Berez:

Yes, you are much at much greater risk, by more than 50%.

David Berez:

To die by your own hand than the general public.

David Berez:

Another interesting factoid, cause I get into the stat weeds on, some of this stuff.

David Berez:

The average citizen, average person beyond the age of 50 will live another 30 to 35 years.

David Berez:

The average police officer beyond the age of 50 will live 7.

David Berez:

5 years.

David Berez:

Think about that for a second, that includes suicide, which

David Berez:

is about half those, half that, Delta, half that change.

David Berez:

and the rest of it is, just disease that our bodies are breaking down after the course of our careers.

David Berez:

So it's terrifying to think that we put in all of this time and, from a little cynical point of view, you don't have

David Berez:

the, you don't have the opportunity to collect your full pension, but the,

David Berez:

it's, scary.

David Berez:

And we do, I think we've done a much better job in the last five to eight years or so of raising awareness that

David Berez:

there's an issue, but we're not doing anything to solve for the problem.

David Berez:

And, so there's a lot of people that are out there telling their

David Berez:

story, raising the red flag and their, heart is in the right place.

David Berez:

Unfortunately, so many of them are not trained properly and how to convey some of this information.

David Berez:

And quite frankly, I think they're re traumatizing people through their own stories, during these

David Berez:

conventions or speeches or whatever, and they're not giving them the

David Berez:

tools that they really need to do to help people better themselves.

David Berez:

Of course.

David Berez:

there's kind of two sides to this.

David Berez:

There's the people that need the clinical therapy where you need a psychologist, psychiatrist to

David Berez:

take you from like negative 10 to zero, just to the survival space.

David Berez:

And then positive psychology, which is more of my realm is the thriving space, zero to positive 10.

David Berez:

So positive psychology doesn't look at amelioration of a problem.

David Berez:

It looks at people that have solved for their problem.

David Berez:

And now what do you do?

David Berez:

How do you stop yourself from either going back down that rabbit hole, down that spiral?

David Berez:

or how do you continue to upgrade that spiral into a place where you're thriving?

David Berez:

So that's the stuff I'm looking at.

Craig Floyd:

known you for more than a dozen years.

Craig Floyd:

you are one of the most talented, passionate High energy, a guy

Craig Floyd:

that seemingly has, everything you want in life, right?

Craig Floyd:

A good family man.

Craig Floyd:

and, then I read your book, a resilient life, and you were kind

Craig Floyd:

enough to send me the manuscript before it was ever published and.

Craig Floyd:

I, I knew a different David Beres when I finished reading that book, sadly, you were almost one of those

Craig Floyd:

police suicide statistics and you bared your soul and told that story.

Craig Floyd:

And I want to read an excerpt from the introduction that you wrote.

Craig Floyd:

It says.

Craig Floyd:

While my body aches from years of carrying the physical and emotional weight of the job and

Craig Floyd:

other experiences, it is the lack of touch where I endure the most pain.

Craig Floyd:

I can no longer feel my mother's embrace.

Craig Floyd:

I struggle to hug my own kids, and I'm challenged by the inability to show affection to my wife,

Craig Floyd:

because through it all, I have lost the ability to feel love.

Craig Floyd:

I just shook me when I read it.

Craig Floyd:

I'm like, this is not the David Berez I know.

Craig Floyd:

And then I read the story.

Craig Floyd:

I hope our, viewers understand what happened in your police life that got you to that point.

David Berez:

Yeah.

David Berez:

So even hearing that back is incredibly emotional for me.

David Berez:

A lot changes in your brain.

David Berez:

You don't exit the job, the same person you entered as.

David Berez:

And, there's a scientific term called neuroplasticity.

David Berez:

And what that entails is your brain changes over time based

David Berez:

on the experiences that it has and its ability to learn.

David Berez:

where you are at in the moment and through habit formation, it

David Berez:

adapts and overcomes to give you a new normal over and over again.

David Berez:

And your new normal, when you be, when you get onto the job is just who you are, who you were raised to be.

David Berez:

Most of us started, in our early twenties, some people as young as 18, which is insane to me because you're

David Berez:

still a child and, You are your most formative years as a young adult become through the traumas that you see and

David Berez:

deal with and manage and are exposed to over the course of your career.

David Berez:

And for me, my biggest event of the initial part of my career was 9 11 and, I was a 9 11 rescuer.

David Berez:

it's a whole nother.

David Berez:

Story we can go into, but, it really shaped how I thought and how I process things and how I saw the world.

David Berez:

And I truly, from an early stage of my career, recognize what real evil looks like, and, you begin to.

David Berez:

Disassociate from everyday, normal, quote unquote, normal life, and you begin to believe that the real

David Berez:

evil that you're always confronted with is normal, and that just changes who you are, it changes your

David Berez:

perception of things, and for me, it took the love out of my heart.

David Berez:

I loved the job, but you know what?

David Berez:

That's an intangible.

David Berez:

That job's never going to love you back.

David Berez:

The people you work with are your buddies.

David Berez:

Great.

David Berez:

They'll be there in the worst of moments if you need them, but they're not the ones they're going home to.

David Berez:

They're never going to love you back.

David Berez:

Your bosses, they're your bosses.

David Berez:

They have a responsibility to you as an employee, and maybe you have some

David Berez:

really good leaders that care for you, but they will never love you back.

David Berez:

And through all of that, I forgot.

David Berez:

I lost the ability to love and when I came home, I was just not an affectionate person anymore.

David Berez:

I, didn't know how to hug my kids and mean it.

David Berez:

I didn't know how to have a,

David Berez:

loving relationship with my wife.

David Berez:

It was very functional.

David Berez:

And, yeah, it was really.

David Berez:

That was the hardest part for me when I realized I was going through that.

David Berez:

And you don't recognize it right away.

David Berez:

Like those things change slowly over time until I don't know that I really realized it until I retired.

David Berez:

What I had left behind from when I started.

Bill Erfurth:

So I want to jump in real quick and just say, cop to cop, I can completely relate to what

Bill Erfurth:

you're just saying, and one little antidote about this is I remember as

Bill Erfurth:

a young cop and you'd be around the old guys, the, the old school people.

Bill Erfurth:

And you'd look at them and be like, wow, why is that guy?

Bill Erfurth:

So hateful and cynical, everything sucks.

Bill Erfurth:

Everything is terrible.

Bill Erfurth:

And you, and I, would say to myself, I will never be that will never be me.

Bill Erfurth:

And then lo and behold, it becomes me.

Bill Erfurth:

and it's shocking how cold hearted you become.

David Berez:

Yeah.

David Berez:

And on the other side of your career, when you're ready to leave, you've now

David Berez:

spent 35 years in this neuroplastic change of your brain towards the worst.

David Berez:

and it doesn't change the day you retire.

David Berez:

It's going to take years to unwind that it just, as long as it took you to get screwed up, it could take you that long.

David Berez:

To get unscrewed up and, there's a great book out there, with all due respect to language called unfuck yourself.

David Berez:

And, it, it doesn't, it's not specifically about police work, but it's a great way to understand how your

David Berez:

brain works when things go sideways on you for an extended period of time, and then how to recover from those in

David Berez:

hopefully a shorter period of time, but it can be a one to one ratio.

Craig Floyd:

David, you, said to me once, and I'll never forget it when we were talking about Derek Chauvin,

Craig Floyd:

who was the cop that, was convicted of the death of George Floyd.

Craig Floyd:

And you said it had nothing to do with, racism.

Craig Floyd:

it had all to do with the fact that this was an unfeeling, cop who had lost the sense of empathy for a

Craig Floyd:

fellow human being because of the job and, the career that he had.

Craig Floyd:

Talk to me a little bit about that.

David Berez:

Yeah, I think it's important just to caveat that by saying we need to separate out the

David Berez:

media narrative from what's practical and, objective in that story.

David Berez:

And it's always a shame and sucks when somebody dies.

David Berez:

But you have to separate out the emotion from the pragmatic approach of how you look at it.

David Berez:

And yeah, Derek Chauvin, technique aside on what he used.

David Berez:

And there's some debate in that too.

David Berez:

There's some debate whether the technique was actually used, depending on what camera angles you look at.

David Berez:

But, yeah, when you look in that dude's eyes, he was vacant.

David Berez:

There was like a complete we're open sign here and nobody's home.

David Berez:

the depth in his eyes was creepy to me and looking back at some of his disciplinary history, there was some

David Berez:

major red flag warnings there, and he was a full on lack of compassion, lack of empathy, burned out guy.

David Berez:

he had seen too much, he had done too much, and he no longer had a

David Berez:

soul, and that doesn't make him evil, that doesn't make him a bad man.

David Berez:

It just makes him somebody that's no longer fit for that job and somebody

David Berez:

that needs real clinical support because, my man was in bad, way.

David Berez:

And I think that's what ultimately caused the death of the suspect was Chauvin's mental health crisis.

David Berez:

I just don't think he had it together enough to be able to do the job effectively anymore.

David Berez:

He should have been out a long time ago.

Dennis Collins:

you, you mentioned, I think in the book, and I think I've talked to you about this

Dennis Collins:

before, the average law enforcement officer experiences 20 traumatic events per month doing their job.

Dennis Collins:

The average citizen, civilian, maybe experiences five really traumatic events in their whole life.

Dennis Collins:

Is that part of what you're talking about with Chauvin, perhaps?

David Berez:

yeah.

David Berez:

So the, the, numbers there, just so we have them straight are the

David Berez:

average citizen is four to six, traumatic events in their lifetime.

David Berez:

The average, police officer will have approximately 20 per year and four to 600 within their career.

David Berez:

so yes, that, that accumulation of, traumatic events that you're exposed to absolutely goes to your mind state and.

David Berez:

It goes beyond your mind state.

David Berez:

It's how your body reacts to things.

David Berez:

Even if his mind was, and I know this sounds like excuses, but it's not.

David Berez:

It's an explanation.

David Berez:

Even if his mind is telling him, this is not right.

David Berez:

Let's say, when the suspect passes out or the suspect loses consciousness, the, Average person would say,

David Berez:

okay, let's recalibrate and let's move on to a different tactic or technique here, support this guy's

David Berez:

health, and life, and we're still going to accomplish our goal.

David Berez:

He may have been thinking that I can't say if he was or wasn't, nobody can be in his head, right?

David Berez:

But his body was locked up.

David Berez:

His brain and his body were disconnected and there's a great book by Bessel van der Kolk called The Body Keeps the

David Berez:

Score and it goes into talking about how every cell in your body stores your

David Berez:

overall stress exposure and there's this huge, can be a huge disconnect.

David Berez:

Between your thoughts and how your body reacts to things.

David Berez:

Now that can cause medical issues.

David Berez:

It can cause, there's a whole bunch of different things.

David Berez:

It's, a pretty thick book and goes into a lot of the science, but yeah, it's quite possible that man's exposure

David Berez:

across the years of his job, not only potentially caused him to make bad choices, but maybe in his head, he

David Berez:

was making the right choices and his body just wouldn't respond to them.

David Berez:

Which is wild, right?

David Berez:

the average person is going, yeah, excuse bullshit, but it's, reality because when you look at a trauma

David Berez:

response of an average person at a car crash, how many people have stopped

David Berez:

at a car crash, had these big bulgy eyes staring at it and haven't moved.

David Berez:

To help somebody that's screaming for help, which is, we can go into that

David Berez:

as a separate type of conversation as well, but that's a stress response.

David Berez:

He was having a full blown panic attack, not the suspect, but the officer.

David Berez:

And yeah, it's, he was on that job way too long.

David Berez:

And there was some red flags well before that incident occurred.

David Berez:

So shame on the department for not having solved for it ahead of time.

Craig Floyd:

I want to read something to you from the book.

Craig Floyd:

David talks about the types of traumatic events.

Craig Floyd:

And I think when we talk about a traumatic event, it's like, what are we talking about?

Craig Floyd:

David goes into some pretty good descriptive stories here.

Craig Floyd:

He says he saw two children killed in a car crash.

Craig Floyd:

17 year old boy who died by suicide.

Craig Floyd:

He was hit by a train he told a 10 year old child that his only parent had died, and now he was an orphan.

Craig Floyd:

And, he saw a suicide victim hanging from a tree, a day laborer who fell into a commercial wood chipper.

Craig Floyd:

my goodness.

Craig Floyd:

my question to you, Bill, and you and David maybe can have an exchange

Craig Floyd:

on this, you must have experienced those same types of traumatic events.

Craig Floyd:

And yet, in talking to you, I don't think you ever got to the depths that David did in terms of

Craig Floyd:

depression, in terms of thoughts of suicide, alcohol, et cetera.

Craig Floyd:

And I'm just wondering, what was your mindset?

Craig Floyd:

You dealt with those same traumatic events and yet somehow you came out differently.

Craig Floyd:

You two need to talk about what's the difference, what helped you and what, what was harmful to David.

Bill Erfurth:

Yeah, and absolutely.

Bill Erfurth:

and I just want to preface that by saying, your average person, as we were talking about traumatic incidents,

Bill Erfurth:

your average person, and this is a story that I've said a hundred times to lots of people, want you to explain

Bill Erfurth:

what it's like to be a cop and all these things, as a cop, I would see 20 dead people A month, which was

Bill Erfurth:

probably average working in a big city and so the, story I would say is,

Bill Erfurth:

probably most people in their lives, see 20 dead people their entire life.

Bill Erfurth:

And most of them are at funerals and they're cleaned up and their

Bill Erfurth:

lips are slow, so closed and the makeup and the whole nine yards.

Bill Erfurth:

And as a cop, you're seeing people that are just mangled and destroyed and just craziness, right?

Bill Erfurth:

So it absolutely adds up.

Bill Erfurth:

And that's why a lot of, people are, why are cops so jaded and cynical?

Bill Erfurth:

it becomes a defensive mechanism.

Bill Erfurth:

It's a coping mechanism so that you can just get through the day and survive.

Bill Erfurth:

And I did get to a point in my career and everyone wants to go and see the train wreck.

Bill Erfurth:

Everyone wants to see the gore and the craziness, right?

Bill Erfurth:

That's why people go to the movies.

Bill Erfurth:

That's why you got the, rubberneckers on the highways.

Bill Erfurth:

As a young cop, and I wasn't in uniform on the road for a very long time, quite

Bill Erfurth:

frankly, maybe eight years of my whole career, but I would go to every call.

Bill Erfurth:

So even if it wasn't my call and there was a decapitated body, I had to go by because I had to see

Bill Erfurth:

that if it was someone that was dead in a car, if it was a, if

Bill Erfurth:

it was a brutal murder scene or a mutilation or any kind of crazy thing.

Bill Erfurth:

I went to those and then as a good cop, I used to want to go to all the police funerals.

Bill Erfurth:

And my God, when I was younger, the number of police funerals we went to, in my first five years

Bill Erfurth:

on the job, four of my friends were murdered in the line of duty.

Bill Erfurth:

So you don't forget those things.

Bill Erfurth:

And all of that adds up and adds up.

Bill Erfurth:

And I finally got to the point, maybe after 10 years on the job.

Bill Erfurth:

And I said, why am I exposing myself to all this?

Bill Erfurth:

Why?

Bill Erfurth:

I don't need to go to all those calls.

Bill Erfurth:

Those are my calls.

Bill Erfurth:

I wasn't dispatched to that.

Bill Erfurth:

And I, and then I said, you know what?

Bill Erfurth:

I'm not going to a funeral again.

Bill Erfurth:

And I never have gone to a funeral since then, and I never went to those calls unless I absolutely had to, if that

Bill Erfurth:

was my job, not that I didn't care, but it was just self preservation.

Bill Erfurth:

So to drill down further into answering your question, I think that

Bill Erfurth:

the reason I never had nightmares, I never thought about suicide.

Bill Erfurth:

I looked at suicide and I thought, man, if you.

Bill Erfurth:

If you committed suicide, you can't even bitch about it anymore.

Bill Erfurth:

kind of thing.

Bill Erfurth:

I feel that I just grew up that way.

Bill Erfurth:

I grew up in a very stable home, a lot of support, good friends.

Bill Erfurth:

And I look at different guys, girls that I worked with, cops that I worked with.

Bill Erfurth:

And I think that the background and the way you grew up has a lot to do with it.

David Berez:

Yeah, I would agree with that and don't you say something about that in your book?

David Berez:

Yeah.

David Berez:

Yeah.

David Berez:

so I would also add that, There's a lot to be said about having an innately optimistic attitude and which bill,

David Berez:

I, know you, and I know you have, that's just generally your personality.

David Berez:

And I did not grow up in a very stable, I don't want to say it was

David Berez:

unstable, but it was a unconventional household where there were some issues.

David Berez:

I. Unfortunately had a, negative experience with a family friend, and sexual abuse, for a short

David Berez:

period of time, which obviously nothing normal about that.

David Berez:

so there are other issues, but I'm not the only one, right?

David Berez:

I'm not here to cry wolf.

David Berez:

I'm not here to be a victim.

David Berez:

It's not me.

David Berez:

again, these are maybe some explanations and they're not excuses for anything.

David Berez:

but I had growing up, I didn't.

David Berez:

necessarily have the positive support about, man, you can do whatever you,

David Berez:

set your heart out to, man, you've got this, you're a smart dude.

David Berez:

I didn't have that.

David Berez:

what I had was, this is not what Jewish boys do.

David Berez:

I had, this probably isn't for you.

David Berez:

I had,

David Berez:

You're maybe you should look at community college.

David Berez:

meanwhile, I graduated from an Ivy league university with my master's degree.

David Berez:

so I had a lot of those,

David Berez:

risk management issues in my household, that nobody wanted to set me up for

David Berez:

failure because I wasn't seen as someone that was, setting myself up for success.

David Berez:

So it was done out of love and compassion.

David Berez:

But it wasn't done out of intelligence.

David Berez:

So growing up there, I, that caused me to have a lot of negative self talk.

David Berez:

And I think as I went through some of these experiences on the job, I

David Berez:

didn't have that optimistic outlook as, you may have had Bill, and I think.

David Berez:

I just looked at all of these things and speaking from like a music perspective, I looked at all of these things as a D

David Berez:

minor, versus possibly a C note, and, it, they, that D minor adds up after a while and it breaks you down because

David Berez:

it's just such a negative feeling, whereas if you can look at something

David Berez:

and see Not why is this happening to me, but why is this happening for me?

David Berez:

And then recalibrate from that.

David Berez:

That's a positive, optimistic, resilient outlook.

David Berez:

And I didn't have that until after my career.

David Berez:

So I think that's, I think that's a big difference.

David Berez:

If you can do

Bill Erfurth:

David.

Bill Erfurth:

And we want to drill down on this with you because this is the real heart of the matter.

Bill Erfurth:

We're talking about death by suicide.

Bill Erfurth:

We're talking about cops that kill themselves at an unprecedented rate.

Bill Erfurth:

Let's tell your story.

Bill Erfurth:

Tell us what happened with you.

Bill Erfurth:

It's my understanding that came up twice.

Bill Erfurth:

And talk about the circumstances, talk about why and what, and how did you persevere and survive?

David Berez:

So the first, go around, which was actually the more serious, planned out version of it, was in 2019.

David Berez:

I had an ridiculous IA complaint.

David Berez:

no, it wasn't a complaint.

David Berez:

It was, I had a broken body camera, that literally there were, it's

David Berez:

junk equipment, it broke, and I was leaving for vacation that day.

David Berez:

My immediate supervisor was like, yeah, don't worry about it.

David Berez:

Just we'll figure it out when you get back after your vacation.

David Berez:

I was like, sure.

David Berez:

I should probably write this up now.

David Berez:

He's nah, seriously, don't worry about it.

David Berez:

I get back from the 10 day vacation and I was like, Hey man, we got, to write up that body camera.

David Berez:

He goes, for what?

David Berez:

I will remember the last shift it broke.

David Berez:

He goes, you're just telling me this now.

David Berez:

I'm like, gotcha.

David Berez:

I see the game.

David Berez:

We're about to start playing.

David Berez:

Cool.

David Berez:

Got it on board.

David Berez:

And clearly he was coached.

David Berez:

Because he's not smart enough to come up with this plan on his own.

David Berez:

And, so I wrote the report.

David Berez:

And, I got it back and said, we need more detail about all of these different things.

David Berez:

Meanwhile, the details were like crap and shit that I'm not going to remember two weeks later at that point.

David Berez:

And, so I was like, could have been this, but it could have

David Berez:

been this, could have been this, but it could have been this.

David Berez:

And they're like, no, you got to pick one.

David Berez:

if I picked the wrong one, now I'm lying.

David Berez:

So they were trying to set me up for failure.

David Berez:

And I wasn't going to play that game.

David Berez:

And, so then in their minds, I became insubordinate as a result of the internal affairs investigation.

David Berez:

And long story short, I ended up getting 16 days suspension for a

David Berez:

broken body camera that, by the way, it wasn't even the camera.

David Berez:

It was the casing of the camera and nothing happened to the camera.

David Berez:

The camera worked.

David Berez:

The funny part is that the stories going around the station about why I broke it were hysterical.

David Berez:

did he have sex with the mayor?

David Berez:

Did he do this?

David Berez:

Did he do that?

David Berez:

the countless, accounts of what David could have done to purposely, whatever.

David Berez:

in the end I learned, I'll, backtrack for a second.

David Berez:

So I get the punishment and I was, before I got the punishment, actually over the 16 days, I figured that

David Berez:

I was probably going to get fired for just the litany of things and the way they were setting it up.

David Berez:

And I couldn't handle that.

David Berez:

I had figured that the pain to my family and myself and the embarrassment of getting fired would

David Berez:

be less than if I just eliminated myself from the circumstances.

David Berez:

And how irrational, right?

David Berez:

So just putting a pause there for a second, it's very difficult to get a

David Berez:

good bead on suicide when we can't talk to the experts because they're gone.

David Berez:

And, there's.

David Berez:

Very little opportunity to get into the mindset of committing the act because most people don't survive it.

David Berez:

now me, I don't want to say I survived it because I never actually committed the act.

David Berez:

It's not like I shot myself and survived.

David Berez:

I never pulled the trigger, but we can get into that in a second.

David Berez:

So my mindset was that the embarrassment and the outcomes would be less traumatic to my family if I was eliminated from

David Berez:

the equation versus being fired, but what an irrational way of looking at it.

David Berez:

But that's what goes on in your head when you're stuck with this pain that

David Berez:

you don't know how to manage, you really get these irrational thoughts.

David Berez:

So I had, that morning I had.

David Berez:

come off night shift and said goodbye to my platoon as we all went off on our ways and they had

David Berez:

no idea, obviously, but I knew that I was saying goodbye for good.

David Berez:

And, I was driving home, sitting at the traffic light, making,

David Berez:

about to make a left towards, my house off the main road.

David Berez:

And, I was in the next town over from where I worked and my plan

David Berez:

was to pull into the parking lot of their PD and blow my brains out.

David Berez:

I already had my gun in my lap.

David Berez:

The funny, part is if there's a funny part, I was actually, there's no traffic on the road at, six 30 in the morning

David Berez:

on a, whatever day that, I don't know, I think it was a Tuesday actually.

David Berez:

And I'm sitting at the red light waiting for the light to change before I turn on to the other street where the PD is at.

David Berez:

Who cares?

David Berez:

What are they going to give me a ticket for?

David Berez:

blowing my brains out?

David Berez:

Who cares?

David Berez:

like just completely irrational shit.

David Berez:

And, while I'm sitting at that traffic light, my phone rings.

David Berez:

And it was my older son.

David Berez:

And, who was,

David Berez:

probably 12 or 13 at the time.

David Berez:

And, He's Hey man, Hey daddy.

David Berez:

I just wanted to say hi.

David Berez:

I didn't know if you'd be home before I left for school.

David Berez:

So I just wanted to say good morning and say, I love you.

David Berez:

I'll see you later.

David Berez:

So we had a three or four minute conversation in that window.

David Berez:

I had made the left turn driven past the police station where I planned to execute this and just kept on driving.

David Berez:

And by the time I hung up the phone, I was at another intersection down at the other end of that road and my

David Berez:

moment had passed and I don't know why I didn't just pull into another

David Berez:

parking lot, but there was this window that mysteriously he caught me in.

David Berez:

And I drove through that window with him on the phone and I got home like nothing ever happened.

David Berez:

It was a typical morning, sent the kids off to school and my wife went off

David Berez:

to work and I lied in bed, opened the window, sun shining in, air coming in.

David Berez:

I never felt so alive in that piece of my life.

Craig Floyd:

Never share that with your wife, by the way.

David Berez:

the first time she heard that story is when she read the book.

David Berez:

And what about your son?

David Berez:

He has not read the book and I have not shared the story yet with him.

Bill Erfurth:

How old is he now?

David Berez:

17.

Bill Erfurth:

That would be interesting to see how he relates and understands and feels about that whole situation.

David Berez:

Yeah, I agree.

David Berez:

it's one of those things where you always say it's just not the right time, maybe later.

David Berez:

Yeah.

David Berez:

And later, They're later is not on the calendar ever.

David Berez:

so it's,

Bill Erfurth:

as your kid probably looks at you as his father, his mentor, his

Bill Erfurth:

rock, somebody looks up to, and then to share that story of vulnerability of.

Bill Erfurth:

That side of you that maybe he never thought of is interesting, but the

Bill Erfurth:

dynamic of him then knowing that it was him saved you is very powerful.

David Berez:

It is.

David Berez:

And,

David Berez:

as vulnerable as I am, and I appreciate, even in the intro to, all of our conversation today that was mentioned,

David Berez:

I haven't had the strength yet to have that conversation with him.

Craig Floyd:

David, I've heard from others that, that have dug deeper into this issue of police and firefighter

Craig Floyd:

suicide, very similar numbers that, it's the fact that police are exposed to death on a regular basis.

Craig Floyd:

Bill mentioned maybe 20 dead people he saw in a typical month while he was a police officer in Miami.

Craig Floyd:

and then you have easy access to a weapon, a gun, that you're very comfortable with.

Craig Floyd:

you fire it all the time, target practice, et cetera.

Craig Floyd:

how much, do you think that plays into the higher rate of suicide among police officers?

Craig Floyd:

Easy access.

Craig Floyd:

To a method of committing suicide and as a comfortableness, if you will, with death.

David Berez:

That's a great question.

David Berez:

And, the research bears out that it's statistically insignificant.

David Berez:

Interesting.

David Berez:

Yeah.

David Berez:

So

Bill Erfurth:

David, I've, I have an interesting question for you.

Bill Erfurth:

What's your safe space?

Bill Erfurth:

Where do you feel the safest?

David Berez:

That's a great question.

David Berez:

now in this moment, Or this, point in my life in my wife's arms.

Bill Erfurth:

Gotcha.

Bill Erfurth:

So I'm going to further this along.

Bill Erfurth:

I've got two safe spaces.

Bill Erfurth:

It's interesting because after all the death, destruction and despair that you experience as a cop over

Bill Erfurth:

the years, the shadows that lurk behind, how evil lurks everywhere.

Bill Erfurth:

I don't go.

Bill Erfurth:

Pretty much anywhere without a gun.

Bill Erfurth:

I don't even feel safe in my own home.

Bill Erfurth:

Like

David Berez:

I would agree with that.

David Berez:

I actually feel most vulnerable in my own home.

Bill Erfurth:

Yeah, because who knows who might come to kill you that you put in prison or whatever it might be right.

Bill Erfurth:

Agreed.

Bill Erfurth:

My one safe space.

Bill Erfurth:

My number one safe space is the couch on my family's home where I grew up as a kid.

Bill Erfurth:

Before I knew the evils of the world.

Bill Erfurth:

And when I go back there, I can sit there and all of a sudden I feel

Bill Erfurth:

this leave my body and just feel a complete and total sense of peace.

Bill Erfurth:

I have that other sensation when I'm in the mountains, but otherwise

Bill Erfurth:

I'm always still on alert for the evil that lies around the corner.

David Berez:

Yeah, that's 100 percent relatable to me.

David Berez:

so I think the question for me is actually better in reverse.

David Berez:

It's where do I not feel safe?

David Berez:

because I can feel pretty safe outside of the area where I worked outside of my home.

David Berez:

Like we have a second home up in Western Massachusetts in the mountains up there.

David Berez:

I don't think about cop shit at all.

David Berez:

I'm hiking, I'm kayaking, I'm skiing.

David Berez:

Like cop shit is just like completely the last thing on my mind.

David Berez:

because it's, I'm out with nature and just, I feel Untouchable,

David Berez:

but yeah, my home is actually here in, where I live in New Jersey is, I feel most vulnerable, when I drive

David Berez:

through the town that I work in, I worked in, which is about, 15, 20 minutes away from my home, for one

David Berez:

reason or another, I don't get back there much, but I have, an eye doctor that's there, I have, whatever,

David Berez:

I get this sense of unease.

David Berez:

I get that, the hypervigilance like goes through the roof again, and

David Berez:

I'm immediately back in the cop mode and, it doesn't feel good.

Bill Erfurth:

And isn't that interesting?

Bill Erfurth:

Isn't that interesting though?

Bill Erfurth:

Because when you go back to where you work and you drive down a street.

Bill Erfurth:

And you look at every corner and you say, I remember the dead body there.

Bill Erfurth:

Yeah.

Bill Erfurth:

I remember the person that set themselves on fire there.

Bill Erfurth:

I remember where that person was, killed and decapitated.

Bill Erfurth:

You can go through blocks and blocks of neighborhoods where you worked and you remember some

Bill Erfurth:

traumatic thing that happened, some child, baby that died there.

Bill Erfurth:

And, it's just.

David Berez:

But I will also add, Bill, I also can say.

David Berez:

I delivered a baby at that household.

David Berez:

You can't.

David Berez:

I, did CPR and save somebody's life at that household.

David Berez:

I remember how grateful this woman was when I showed up at her door.

David Berez:

And I tried to go back to those moments more and I, but it has to

David Berez:

be done with intention because our minds naturally spin to the negative.

Bill Erfurth:

and there has been, and throughout your career, mostly things are negative.

Bill Erfurth:

Correct.

Bill Erfurth:

Nobody calls 9 1 1 to celebrate a birthday.

Bill Erfurth:

They call 9 1 1 because they just flushed their infant down the toilet.

Bill Erfurth:

Correct.

Bill Erfurth:

It's so full of death, destruction, and despair.

Bill Erfurth:

Yeah.

Bill Erfurth:

Those few little nuggets of saving somebody's life or

Bill Erfurth:

really making an influence on somebody changing their life is.

Bill Erfurth:

It's, a big, difference.

David Berez:

Yeah, And so I do it with intention because I, otherwise I will drive myself nuts every time

David Berez:

I go through town and, I see both, but I try to remember the ones that are positive, especially at this

David Berez:

point, having been through the pen program, having been through the master resiliency trainer program.

David Berez:

I recognize what's healthy for me.

David Berez:

And I make a very conscious, deliberate effort to focus on the positives.

Bill Erfurth:

So David, let's jump into your other incident, in the interest of time, and then we'll jump back to Craig.

Bill Erfurth:

I know he's got some other things.

David Berez:

Yeah.

David Berez:

So the second, moment in time is a little less dramatic on my end, but,

David Berez:

so post

David Berez:

COVID.

David Berez:

So I retired January 1st of 2020.

David Berez:

And then, if you do the math on that, I missed COVID and I missed all the civil unrest.

David Berez:

Which, by the way, was very challenging for me.

David Berez:

When everybody's busting their ass and shoulder to shoulder in

David Berez:

these riots, and I'm sitting on my couch listening to the scanner.

David Berez:

Was not a good place for me to be.

David Berez:

I needed to be in that fight.

David Berez:

And I still had it in me.

David Berez:

I almost went back.

David Berez:

But my wife was like, you can go back, but we won't be here when you come home.

David Berez:

so it was a challenge and, I found some solace in being able to leave six packs on people's porches for

David Berez:

when they got home after, maybe a 36 hour shift during the riots and stuff.

David Berez:

So for some geography context for the listeners.

David Berez:

I live, one side, one town outside of Trenton where there was a

David Berez:

lot of, civil unrest related to the Chauvin Floyd case.

David Berez:

And, it was, I felt useless.

David Berez:

I felt a lack of purpose.

David Berez:

I felt disconnected in a way I'd never felt disconnected before.

David Berez:

And I found myself on this downward spiral.

David Berez:

Barbara Fredrickson, the, research psychologist, has this downward and

David Berez:

upward spiral that is associated with her broaden and build theory.

David Berez:

And, I felt myself in that downward spiral.

David Berez:

I didn't know how to catch myself and I didn't know how to send myself back up the other way.

David Berez:

And I just felt myself slipping and slipping back into this.

David Berez:

Deep, dark place that I recognized where I knew I'd been there before.

David Berez:

And, just before I think I was in at most risk for.

David Berez:

Being another statistic, sadly, my buddy, Danny, who's a detective sergeant at Trenton PD on July 29th had taken

David Berez:

his own life and, a very dramatic story, but it was what it was and at that point we had, I think, six or seven.

David Berez:

In New Jersey, in a very short period of time, Danny was a straw that broke my back, and I knew that, but not

David Berez:

for him, it probably would have been me in the coming days and weeks.

David Berez:

And, I needed to do something about it, and that was what my turning point was.

David Berez:

Danny was not only a good friend, he, our kids are friends, Danny was a Police Unity Tour guy,

David Berez:

It,

David Berez:

broke my heart, and it left a void in me that I, struggle, I still struggle to talk about till today.

Bill Erfurth:

I know, craig's got a number of questions too.

Bill Erfurth:

it's crazy.

Bill Erfurth:

I, knew people when I was working that committed suicide, I never understood it.

Bill Erfurth:

There was one female that, was on my squad and she committed suicide.

Bill Erfurth:

I didn't know her she laid out her entire uniform from her hat all the way down to her shoes.

Bill Erfurth:

On her bed, like perfectly.

Bill Erfurth:

And I, we never talked about that stuff.

Bill Erfurth:

It was very taboo, police suicide was taboo.

Bill Erfurth:

We, you weren't supposed to deal with it and it still is.

Bill Erfurth:

And it's going to be interesting, to get into why and some of the statistics and how do we go about preventing that.

Bill Erfurth:

Craig, I'm going to throw it over to you.

Craig Floyd:

I think it's a good segue.

Craig Floyd:

we've talked about all the struggles that David has faced,

Craig Floyd:

that you faced, Bill, that every officer has to deal with.

Craig Floyd:

and I want to leave this interview on, a more positive note, because as David said, he was down in a

Craig Floyd:

very dark place and then somehow he pulled himself out of it.

Craig Floyd:

And today he is a leading expert on officer resiliency.

Craig Floyd:

the pillars.

Craig Floyd:

That you talk about, David, and we've talked about this many times,

Craig Floyd:

the pillars of resiliency, mental, physical, social, and spiritual.

Craig Floyd:

And what I'd like you to do to maybe, as we conclude this interview, Talk to the officers that are viewing this podcast

Craig Floyd:

and tell them what they can do to help themselves better cope with the Amazing stresses of a police officer's job.

David Berez:

that's hard to do in a short segment Especially

David Berez:

when I teach hours upon hours of classes on that Simple question.

David Berez:

but so let me go back to the PERMA theory P E R M A. I think is a great place to start.

David Berez:

PERMA theory was developed by Dr. Marty Seligman at the university of Pennsylvania.

David Berez:

he is still the director of the MAP program, my graduate school

David Berez:

program, and my personal mentor, which I am incredibly grateful for.

David Berez:

so perma, the P in perma, speaks to positive emotions.

David Berez:

the E speaks to engagement, the R speaks to relationships, the M speaks to meaning or mattering,

David Berez:

depending on how you look at it, and the A speaks to accomplishment.

David Berez:

And those are the five things that are needed, according to Dr.

David Berez:

Seligman, to live a meaningful, purposeful life towards ultimate.

David Berez:

being which Aristotle termed eudaimonia.

David Berez:

And so when we're looking at well being, there's actually two pieces.

David Berez:

There's hedonic being and there's eudaimonic well being.

David Berez:

And hedonic being is the immediate gratification of something.

David Berez:

That quick dopamine hit, whether it's scrolling through your phone and getting all the likes you can

David Berez:

on Instagram, which, by the way, is a colossal waste of time and does nothing for you other than feed that.

David Berez:

control center in your brain, which is equivalent to getting high on an illicit substance.

David Berez:

Or eudaimonic well being, which is more of the long term, long

David Berez:

goal view of doing things that just better your life over time.

David Berez:

And whether that be habit forming, whether that be expression of gratitude, committing random acts of

David Berez:

kindness, Just maintaining a gratitude journal, something so simple, the three blessings exercise, all of these

David Berez:

are evidence based research informed techniques that you can, do for yourself

David Berez:

that as long as you keep up with them, we'll elevate your wellbeing.

David Berez:

We'll take you from that zero to positive 10, that thriving mode.

David Berez:

And they're simple, they're free.

David Berez:

They don't cost you anything other than your intention to do better.

David Berez:

And.

David Berez:

On the surface of it, without having the in depth conversation, people are like, Oh, it's cheesy, bro.

David Berez:

what are you talking about?

David Berez:

That's rainbows and unicorn shit.

David Berez:

but the truth is it's, the science is there.

David Berez:

it's in the numbers and the statistics are indisputable that if you take five or 10 minutes of your day,

David Berez:

either when you go to sleep at night or when you wake up in the morning and write in a gratitude journal,

David Berez:

three things you're grateful for over the period of 30 days, you're.

David Berez:

Elevated wellbeing is completely documented for another six months or up to another six months.

David Berez:

It just makes you feel good because there's a principle, that

David Berez:

looks at the things you focus on are the things that you see.

David Berez:

And so if you are exposed to all this crap all the time, that's what you're going to see.

David Berez:

And that's what you're going to feel.

David Berez:

And that's what you're going to.

David Berez:

Be reacting to now, if you can take a few minutes of your day and write down these things that you're

David Berez:

grateful for over time, those are the things you're going to see.

David Berez:

And I'm not talking about, Oh, I'm grateful for my family.

David Berez:

I'm grateful for my church.

David Berez:

Like those, we call that vanilla be specific in what you're grateful for

David Berez:

because your body, your mind will start to see with purpose, with intention.

David Berez:

Those greater things in your life, and you're more likely subconsciously to hold the door for somebody when

David Berez:

you're walking into a store, you're more likely to put your cart back in the cart line instead of just leaving

David Berez:

it in the parking lot, just random acts of kindness will automatically develop over time because you're

David Berez:

grateful for the little things in life in the big things to, so that's what

David Berez:

I would suggest to officers, upfront, simple, small tasks, free of charge.

David Berez:

They don't cost you anything but your consciousness to do the little things that make you happy

David Berez:

and not, I'm not talking about scrolling through your phone.

David Berez:

I'm not talking about an extra red bull.

David Berez:

Those are hedonic responses.

David Berez:

Those are immediate gratifications.

David Berez:

They over time is what your brain will look for.

David Berez:

Those dopamine hits that.

David Berez:

It's not going to get you to a greater well being, it'll actually destroy your well being over time if

David Berez:

you don't mix it with the eudaimonic responses of greater long term look, one thing I want to say, but

Bill Erfurth:

one thing that I want to say, before Craig jumps back in is, it has evolved a little

Bill Erfurth:

bit from being super taboo from when I started on the job, right?

Bill Erfurth:

I'm a dinosaur now, But, back then, it was very taboo.

Bill Erfurth:

Today, and even when I was on our department, we had a bureau.

Bill Erfurth:

It was called Psych Services Bureau.

Bill Erfurth:

And we had full time psychologist doctors on staff.

Bill Erfurth:

And I know tons of people went and talked to them and went to see them.

Bill Erfurth:

And I do believe that's becoming a thing.

Bill Erfurth:

More prevalent throughout law enforcement, especially bigger agencies

Bill Erfurth:

that can have that kind of budget and staff and bring those people on.

Bill Erfurth:

And I think overall in society, people are more open to going and speaking to somebody where before, and especially in

Bill Erfurth:

the law enforcement circles, everybody, it's all, it's, all about that machismo.

Bill Erfurth:

I'm a tough guy kind of thing.

Bill Erfurth:

I can put up with it.

Bill Erfurth:

I can see anything.

Bill Erfurth:

Tolerate anything, everybody has their, tipping points.

Bill Erfurth:

So to be able to now go and feel more comfortable seeing and talking to somebody that's, truly evolved.

Bill Erfurth:

And, I think Craig had, had alluded to that before, and we had talked about that on our own before as well.

David Berez:

There's some great, great programs out there.

David Berez:

New Jersey was the first state in the country to enact, a statewide

David Berez:

resiliency program, which is currently in a, new evolution.

David Berez:

we'll see where that shakes out.

David Berez:

Louisville, Kentucky has an entire wellness center, that, that was.

David Berez:

It came out of a consent degree, which is also another conversation, but, that was a good part of the

David Berez:

consent decree was that this wellness center were developed out of it.

David Berez:

and, LA County Sheriff's Department has some amazing trainings going on in this space.

David Berez:

there's some great agencies doing some great work.

David Berez:

Addison, Illinois does a lot of the resiliency training and it is catching on.

David Berez:

but getting rid of the stigma has certainly been a challenge.

David Berez:

And it's about just having honest conversation.

David Berez:

and it's not about telling, it's not about storytelling.

David Berez:

It's not about war stories.

David Berez:

It's not about, having people come in and just say, yeah, I, can relate because I did this, I think that's crap.

David Berez:

You have to have people come in that.

David Berez:

Not that can not only relate, but that can give you tools to walk away with.

David Berez:

What's the takeaway from this conversation we're having?

David Berez:

How can I do better as a result of our conversation?

David Berez:

And, I think it has to be a conversation, putting somebody up on a podium with, a PowerPoint deck, useless.

David Berez:

Absolutely useless.

David Berez:

You have to have somebody come into the room, be part of the, crowd, walk through the aisles, have conversations

David Berez:

with people that creates that the breakdown for vulnerability to happen.

David Berez:

So standing up on a podium with PowerPoint slides, it is a waste of everybody's time and money.

David Berez:

But if you can create those conversations in the classroom.

Dennis Collins:

David, in the interest of time, I'm sure we could spend hours with you.

Dennis Collins:

this has been fascinating to hear your personal story.

Dennis Collins:

In the interest of time, I'll ask you a question.

Dennis Collins:

Would you be willing to come back and go deeper into this at some point?

Dennis Collins:

100%. Great.

Dennis Collins:

Because I liked what you were just saying about the different programs that are springing up.

Dennis Collins:

And, I. I am very interested because I, as you, am a student of this, and I am of the belief that as the

Dennis Collins:

leadership goes, so goes the rest of the team and if law enforcement

Dennis Collins:

leadership doesn't get on this train, it's leaving the station.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

And it's not going to get any better and it's a big pet peeve

Dennis Collins:

with me and I have some personal stories to tell as well, but I want.

Dennis Collins:

To hear more of your stories, if you would be kind enough to come back.

David Berez:

And that's what we did in New Jersey.

David Berez:

We hit up the state chiefs of police association.

David Berez:

We did two, chief peer classes so far, maybe three at this point.

David Berez:

and they're like, wow, this stuff's awesome.

David Berez:

And then that has, flowed downhill.

David Berez:

I know Craig's got a question and he's been jumping out of his shirt for the last three minutes.

Dennis Collins:

Okay.

Dennis Collins:

He doesn't want to respect our timeline.

Craig Floyd:

No, I'm not.

Craig Floyd:

I'm just fascinated.

Craig Floyd:

Maybe it's my posture that you're thinking of, but let me close by saying this.

Craig Floyd:

That when I was CEO of the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, we had a program called Destination Zero.

Craig Floyd:

And, it involved, the safety and the wellness of officers, right?

Craig Floyd:

And a big focus of that program was on mental health, all right?

Craig Floyd:

And what we did was we spotlighted those programs that were in place around the country at different

Craig Floyd:

departments to provide better mental health support for their officers.

Craig Floyd:

and I'm so proud of the fact that we were the, the, leaders, if you

Craig Floyd:

will, in, in that particular effort to try to focus on this issue.

Craig Floyd:

And now, David, thanks to you being a part of the CBB leadership team, we are continuing to focus

Craig Floyd:

on this very important issue of mental health for officers.

Craig Floyd:

Officer well being and how can we prevent police suicide?

Craig Floyd:

so when we talk about gratitude, I am very grateful that you're a part of the CBB team I'm, very grateful that

Craig Floyd:

we got to know each other more than a dozen years ago through the police unity

Craig Floyd:

tour And I can't thank you enough for sharing your story, in a resilient life.

Craig Floyd:

What a book.

Craig Floyd:

I encourage everybody to go out and read it, especially our law enforcement professionals and the public.

Craig Floyd:

They need to understand what our officers are dealing with on a day to day basis.

Craig Floyd:

and I'm just very grateful that you shared that story and that you're

Craig Floyd:

now helping others thanks to your own personal experience and struggles.

Craig Floyd:

Thank you, sir. You are truly a hero behind the badge.

David Berez:

Thank you, Craig.

Dennis Collins:

Again, if you want more about this incredible topic, here's

Dennis Collins:

David's book, A Resilient Life, A Cop's Journey and Pursuit of Purpose.

Dennis Collins:

if you liked what you heard today, you need to get online right now and buy this book because it goes deeper.

Dennis Collins:

And tells more of David's story.

Dennis Collins:

David, your, story, what can I say?

Dennis Collins:

your superpower is your vulnerability.

Dennis Collins:

Your superpower is your transparency.

Dennis Collins:

And that's something that's sometimes missing in law enforcement.

Dennis Collins:

We don't always get that, but your story is not only inspiring.

Dennis Collins:

Not just to law enforcement, but to people, to human beings.

Dennis Collins:

And more important,

Dennis Collins:

it's instructive, because you have the knowledge, you have the experience, and you've blended the experiences you've

Dennis Collins:

had with the knowledge you've gained as a trained certified facilitator and a master degree, facilitator in

Dennis Collins:

two very important topics that law enforcement needs to pay attention to.

Dennis Collins:

So again, thank you for sharing at such a deep level.

Dennis Collins:

certainly, probably not the most pleasant experience all the time to go back there.

Dennis Collins:

How many people have we helped today because of having this conversation?

Dennis Collins:

That's what I think of.

Dennis Collins:

yeah.

Dennis Collins:

And you are one of the best I've ever heard.

Dennis Collins:

I'm, jealous because I wish I had studied with Marty Seligman.

Dennis Collins:

He is one of my total all time heroes.

David Berez:

He's a good man.

David Berez:

And, as soon as we, publish this, I'm a hundred percent sure I will be sending it to him and, he will see

David Berez:

what we've been talking about and how we're using positive psychology in the law enforcement fields.

David Berez:

I would add though that, I'm the only police officer to have ever gone through that program, at 10.

David Berez:

And there's been an FBI agent and, a psychologist with a, one of the alphabet agencies.

David Berez:

And, but I'm the only, and sorry, and the chief of police in Mumbai, India.

David Berez:

but I'm the only street cop from the U S it's ever been through that program.

Dennis Collins:

Good for you.

Dennis Collins:

And ma and I think you would probably say this to many more, please do this.

Dennis Collins:

We need an army.

Dennis Collins:

We don't need just one brave, vulnerable person like you doing this.

Dennis Collins:

We need more.

Dennis Collins:

And hopefully we got that message across today.

Dennis Collins:

And tell Marty, I said, hi,

David Berez:

I said, I'm going to call him right after we're done.

Dennis Collins:

Absolutely.

Dennis Collins:

Folks, we're going to have to end this wonderful episode of Heroes Behind the Badge.

Dennis Collins:

We thank you for tuning in.

Dennis Collins:

Once again, our guest was David Berez.

Dennis Collins:

again, I can only recommend one more time.

Dennis Collins:

The result, a resilient life, a cop's journey in pursuit of purpose.

Dennis Collins:

This will tell you all you need to know about David and his personal story.

Dennis Collins:

So until next time, if you would like more information about

Dennis Collins:

citizens behind the badge, that's who brings you these podcasts.

Dennis Collins:

If you'd like to know more.

Dennis Collins:

You can find us at Citizens Behind the badge.org.

Dennis Collins:

That's Citizens Behind the badge.org.

Dennis Collins:

Please join us in the hundreds of thousands of people who have

Dennis Collins:

already stepped up to support the men and women of law enforcement.

Dennis Collins:

Until next episode, thanks for tuning in.

Dennis Collins:

We'll see you next time at Heroes Behind the Badge.

All Episodes Previous Episode

Listen for free

Show artwork for Heroes Behind the Badge

About the Podcast

Heroes Behind the Badge
We tell REAL stories about REAL cops.  And we expose the fake news about police and give you the REAL truth.
From the front lines to the final call, Heroes Behind the Badge brings you the untold stories of America's law enforcement community. Led by Craig Floyd, who spent 34 years working alongside police officers across the nation, alongside veteran facilitator Dennis Collins and law enforcement expert Bill Erfurth, this podcast cuts through misconceptions to reveal the true nature of modern policing.

Our dynamic trio brings unique perspectives to each episode: Craig shares deep insights from his decades of experience and relationships within law enforcement, Dennis guides conversations with meticulous research and natural flow, and Bill adds engaging commentary that makes complex law enforcement topics accessible to all listeners.

Each episode features in-depth conversations with law enforcement professionals, sharing their firsthand experiences, challenges, and triumphs. Drawing from extensive research and real-world experience, we explore the realities faced by the over 800,000 officers who serve and protect our communities every day.

From dramatic accounts of crisis response to quiet moments of everyday heroism, our show illuminates the human stories behind the badge. We dive deep into the statistics, policies, and practices that shape modern law enforcement, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of what it truly means to serve in law enforcement today.

Whether you're a law enforcement professional, a concerned citizen, or someone seeking to understand the complexities of modern policing, Heroes Behind the Badge provides the context, insights, and authentic perspectives you won't find anywhere else. Join us weekly as we honor those who dedicate their lives to keeping our communities safe, one story at a time.

Presented by Citizens Behind the Badge, a nonprofit organization dedicated to supporting and advocating for law enforcement professionals across the United States. Join over 126,000 Americans who have already signed our Declaration of Support for law enforcement at behindbadge.org.