Wildlife Officer vs. Cop Killers: The Heroic Showdown That Saved Lives Behind the Badge

Dennis Collins: 00:00:10

Good to see you again.

Dennis Collins: 00:00:11

A warm welcome back to The Heroes Behind the Badge podcast.

Dennis Collins: 00:00:16

We tell real stories about real cops.

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We expose the fake news about police and we always give you the real truth.

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This podcast is brought to you by Citizens Behind the Badge, the leading

Dennis Collins: 00:00:29

voice of the American people in support of the men and women of law enforcement.

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For more information about how you can get involved, it's citizens behind the Badge org.

Dennis Collins: 00:00:41

Hi, I'm your host.

Dennis Collins: 00:00:42

I'm Dennis Collins.

Dennis Collins: 00:00:43

I'm a founding board member of Citizens Behind the Badge and a

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Law Enforcement Father, please say hello to my colleagues today.

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None other than Craig Floyd and Bill Erfurth.

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Biller Erfurth is a retired Miami-Dade lieutenant, 26 years of decorated

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service, and a founding board member of Citizens Behind the Badge.

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Our fearless leader is Craig Floyd.

Dennis Collins: 00:01:08

Craig is the founder, president, and CEO of Citizens Behind the Badge.

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You may know Craig as the founding CEO Emeritus of the National Law Enforcement Memorial and the Police

Dennis Collins: 00:01:19

Museum in Washington D.C. I hope you guys are ready for an amazing story.

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We have, as always, a very special guest today, sheriff Mike Neal.

Dennis Collins: 00:01:33

Mike is a highly decorated law enforcement officer with a long history of public service

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before being elected Sheriff of Monroe County, Arkansas in 2012.

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Mike served four years in the US Navy, two years as a naval reservist.

Dennis Collins: 00:01:46

He spent 11 years as a firefighter.

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How about that?

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Retiring at the rank of Captain Neal began his law enforcement career

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in 1992, working in the Howard County Sheriff's Department Jail.

Dennis Collins: 00:01:59

However.

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Let's go to May 20th, 2010.

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In the blink of an eye, Wildlife Officer, Mike Neal's routine patrol with the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission

Dennis Collins: 00:02:10

transformed into a heart stopping confrontation that would test every ounce of his training and his courage.

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Neal unexpectedly found himself face to face with two cop killers in a Walmart parking lot.

Dennis Collins: 00:02:25

He made a split second high risk decision.

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That most wildlife officers never have to make in their whole career,

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that would forever his life and the lives of those around him.

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This is a true story of how a small town wildlife officer became a national

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hero and why his story continues to inspire and amaze us to this day.

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His brave actions earned him behind.

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In law enforcement, three medals of the 2011 International Officer

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of the Year, and the Congressional Medal of Valor from President Obama.

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But it's the story behind the medals, the raw bravery, the quick

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thinking, and the kind of heroism that Hollywood dreams are made up.

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Sheriff Mike Neal, thank for you for your many years of service as the law enforcement officer.

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Thank you for being a member of the Citizens Behind the Badge Law Enforcement Advisory Council.

Dennis Collins: 00:03:18

You are truly a hero behind the badge.

Dennis Collins: 00:03:21

It's our pleasure to have you with us today to tell your amazing story.

Dennis Collins: 00:03:25

Bill, Craig and I have been talking for the longest time about asking you to join this podcast.

Dennis Collins: 00:03:31

So thank you.

Dennis Collins: 00:03:33

Thank you for taking the time to join us.

Dennis Collins: 00:03:35

I guarantee you, Mike, we have more questions than time will allow today, but I'd like to start it

Dennis Collins: 00:03:41

off by asking our fearless leader, Craig, to ask the first question.

Craig Floyd: 00:03:47

You, Dennis and Mike.

Craig Floyd: 00:03:48

Let me say, what an honor, it's to have you on our podcast.

Craig Floyd: 00:03:52

as Dennis said, heroes Behind the Badge is the name of the show, and,

Craig Floyd: 00:03:57

if there ever is to be a hero, behind the badge, it's, Mike Neal, in.

Craig Floyd: 00:04:04

I think it was October of 2010, the National Law Enforcement Officer's Memorial Fund made you

Craig Floyd: 00:04:11

our officer of the month, and I had the, privilege of meeting you,

Craig Floyd: 00:04:16

a year later at our annual officer of the month, luncheon that we did.

Craig Floyd: 00:04:22

And, I learned your story.

Craig Floyd: 00:04:26

you are, the epitome really when it comes to law enforcement.

Craig Floyd: 00:04:30

I think of certain hallmarks I think of.

Craig Floyd: 00:04:33

Dedication, I think of courage.

Craig Floyd: 00:04:36

I think of selflessness.

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I think of men and women who are more concerned about the safety and welfare of others than themselves.

Craig Floyd: 00:04:45

And I think the story we're about to tell, really, exemplifies, what law enforcement is all about.

Craig Floyd: 00:04:52

And that's why I was so proud to, make your story.

Craig Floyd: 00:04:57

Have your truck that was involved.

Craig Floyd: 00:04:59

our viewers will get to know that story in a moment, and, really make that story a permanent part

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of the National Law Enforcement Museum when we opened in 2018.

Craig Floyd: 00:05:09

And I know Bill, my colleague here, went on to make you a movie star.

Craig Floyd: 00:05:14

he did a, tremendous documentary that, told your story.

Craig Floyd: 00:05:18

Bill any, opening, remarks here for, our good friend Mike?

Bill Erfurth: 00:05:23

So good to see you again, Mike.

Bill Erfurth: 00:05:25

And just, as Craig had just said, we did the Heroes Behind the Badge Documentary, and we did that a number of years ago.

Bill Erfurth: 00:05:33

That Mike's story is featured in it.

Bill Erfurth: 00:05:36

It's an amazing story.

Bill Erfurth: 00:05:38

It's something that everyone should see and know about.

Bill Erfurth: 00:05:41

And I just wanna tell you something about my friend Mike.

Bill Erfurth: 00:05:45

Mike's story is truly.

Bill Erfurth: 00:05:49

Some crazy ass ballsy shit, just to put it bluntly.

Bill Erfurth: 00:05:54

It's a story that everybody needs to hear.

Bill Erfurth: 00:05:59

So Craig, take it away.

Craig Floyd: 00:06:02

Mike, take us back.

Craig Floyd: 00:06:04

May 20th, 2010, approximately 11:36 AM there's a traffic stop in West Memphis, Arkansas.

Craig Floyd: 00:06:16

two police officers came on the scene.

Craig Floyd: 00:06:19

this is really what started the whole story in motion, and it's a tragic story with, a lot of heartache.

Craig Floyd: 00:06:28

But, a lot of courage too and a lot of inspiration.

Craig Floyd: 00:06:32

So talk about the traffic Stop that Got, set all this in motion, please.

Mike Neal: 00:06:39

Yeah.

Mike Neal: 00:06:39

it was, they used to call those the routine traffic stops.

Mike Neal: 00:06:44

in today's time there's nothing routine in anything that we do, and it never should be.

Mike Neal: 00:06:50

If you're an officer, it should never be a routine, but.

Mike Neal: 00:06:53

Back in the day, it was a routine.

Mike Neal: 00:06:55

Traffic stop.

Mike Neal: 00:06:55

Wasn't much to it, just a dirty old white van.

Mike Neal: 00:06:59

the tags didn't match up.

Mike Neal: 00:07:02

Officers pulled it over.

Mike Neal: 00:07:03

They were a drug interdiction team, and old game warden terms.

Mike Neal: 00:07:07

They were out there kicking over rocks, looking for snakes, basically.

Mike Neal: 00:07:11

And, they, kicked a rock over and they found some bad snakes.

Mike Neal: 00:07:14

Is.

Mike Neal: 00:07:16

It

Craig Floyd: 00:07:16

was Officer Bill Evans, I believe, who was the first officer on the scene.

Craig Floyd: 00:07:22

and then he called for backup.

Craig Floyd: 00:07:25

and, so actually he never came along.

Mike Neal: 00:07:27

He never called.

Mike Neal: 00:07:28

There was no traffic, in between the two of them.

Mike Neal: 00:07:31

So that goes back to the leadership, and leadership on branding powders.

Mike Neal: 00:07:38

His part, he was a sergeant on duty and Bill had been out and he was

Mike Neal: 00:07:43

running traffic and, it was, it was Brandon's part to go check on his, kids.

Mike Neal: 00:07:50

that he's watching over and there wasn't any traffic in between the two of 'em.

Mike Neal: 00:07:56

He just pulls up on the traffic stop, starts to learn the information and.

Mike Neal: 00:08:02

at the point in the videos, he starts to take control of the situation and things start going south.

Craig Floyd: 00:08:10

I remember the story.

Craig Floyd: 00:08:11

the driver of the car, a guy named Jerry Kain, and his son was with him, Joe Kain, 16 years old.

Craig Floyd: 00:08:20

And these were members of the Sovereign Citizen movement.

Craig Floyd: 00:08:23

I. Now, for our viewers that may not know, sovereign citizens,

Craig Floyd: 00:08:28

do not have any respect for the government, or their powers.

Craig Floyd: 00:08:33

he, for instance, did not have a driver's license.

Craig Floyd: 00:08:35

He didn't think, sovereign citizens, should be required to have a driver's license.

Craig Floyd: 00:08:41

He did not register his vehicle.

Craig Floyd: 00:08:45

And he had a brick of marijuana in the car and two outstanding warrants for his arrest.

Craig Floyd: 00:08:51

bill Evans discovers all of this and, gets Jerry Cain out of the car.

Craig Floyd: 00:08:57

and I suppose he is attempting to make an arrest, is he not?

Mike Neal: 00:09:00

Yes, sir. I thought he was doing his investigation and, I, teach a class on this and this incident and

Mike Neal: 00:09:08

how important it is, to watch body language, body movements and things.

Mike Neal: 00:09:14

The whole time when he gets the suspect out of the vehicle.

Mike Neal: 00:09:19

I don't ever use his name 'cause I don't believe in publishing their names, but he, they're not worthy of it.

Mike Neal: 00:09:25

But when Bill gets him outta the car, I. He takes control of the TUR traffic stop the movements that he does.

Mike Neal: 00:09:34

He doesn't wanna be on camera.

Mike Neal: 00:09:35

He knows he is on camera, and he walks around to the back of the vehicle and, gets outta camera frame

Mike Neal: 00:09:41

and, tries to get the officer outta camera, frame the entire traffic stop.

Mike Neal: 00:09:45

So he.

Mike Neal: 00:09:47

He, tries to take control and in some ways he does at that point.

Mike Neal: 00:09:52

And it's important for officers to realize what's going on when

Mike Neal: 00:09:55

you're talking to suspects and, their body movement language.

Mike Neal: 00:09:59

'cause a lot of times they're gonna tell you what they're gonna do before they do it.

Mike Neal: 00:10:02

And their movements, honestly, and this is a prime example, he gives him, as soon as he steps

Mike Neal: 00:10:07

outta the van, he gives him that thousand yard sta sizing him up.

Mike Neal: 00:10:11

he's looking at him, can I take this guy or is it, do I need to move on?

Mike Neal: 00:10:16

FBI statistics show that, that they do this to us.

Mike Neal: 00:10:19

But I guess he felt like he could, he makes his first mistake when he gets out of the van.

Mike Neal: 00:10:27

You watch the video closely, the door closes behind him.

Mike Neal: 00:10:30

He stares Bill Evans down, sizing him up, and then he immediately turns to go back to the van.

Mike Neal: 00:10:37

And what does that tell you?

Mike Neal: 00:10:37

As an officer, it should tell you something's in that van he wants or wants to protect, honestly.

Mike Neal: 00:10:44

and then the door shut, he realizes I can't get back in the van without a commotion.

Mike Neal: 00:10:49

So let me play along for a second.

Mike Neal: 00:10:51

And then they, move to the back of the van.

Craig Floyd: 00:10:53

So they have a, a scuffle.

Craig Floyd: 00:10:56

obviously, the, father, starts to resist, and engages him in some, hand-to-hand combat.

Craig Floyd: 00:11:04

and they end up rolling down the, bank into a ditch.

Craig Floyd: 00:11:07

And at that very moment, and we have some video to show this.

Craig Floyd: 00:11:11

The sun gets out of the car.

Craig Floyd: 00:11:12

The 16-year-old with an AK 47, what happens?

Craig Floyd: 00:11:16

Let's run that video and show it.

Mike Neal: 00:11:20

Brandon died right here.

Mike Neal: 00:11:28

Bill actually died, 16-year-old kid, and that ditch right there

Craig Floyd: 00:11:38

and they calmly drive off.

Craig Floyd: 00:11:41

After shooting and killing two police officers.

Craig Floyd: 00:11:46

it was brutal.

Craig Floyd: 00:11:47

I think after everything was done there, there was something like, How many shots?

Craig Floyd: 00:11:53

I think they shot both of the officers, more than a dozen times.

Craig Floyd: 00:11:57

Brandon Powder, I'm looking at the numbers here.

Craig Floyd: 00:12:00

Shot 14 times.

Craig Floyd: 00:12:02

14 times.

Craig Floyd: 00:12:04

Thomas Evans or, bill Evans, I'm sorry.

Craig Floyd: 00:12:07

eight times shot and killed.

Craig Floyd: 00:12:10

and they left them, lying on the roadway there in the ditch.

Craig Floyd: 00:12:14

and then they drove off.

Craig Floyd: 00:12:16

and then.

Craig Floyd: 00:12:17

In a freakish coincidence, Brandon Powder's father, who is the chief of police, of the West Memphis,

Craig Floyd: 00:12:27

Arkansas Police Department at the time, happens to drive, To the scene.

Craig Floyd: 00:12:33

he was on his way on a vacation with his wife who had just

Craig Floyd: 00:12:37

gotten out of the hospital after suffering, I think a heart attack.

Craig Floyd: 00:12:41

and they were on their way to a vacation when they stumbled upon the scene,

Craig Floyd: 00:12:45

and have no idea that it's his son that had just been brutally murdered.

Craig Floyd: 00:12:50

And I think Bill Evans was, he a nephew?

Craig Floyd: 00:12:52

I, think there was a relationship there as well.

Craig Floyd: 00:12:54

Is that true?

Craig Floyd: 00:12:55

Cousin of that?

Craig Floyd: 00:12:58

Yeah.

Craig Floyd: 00:12:58

So at any rate, now you've got the father, the chief of police driving upon

Craig Floyd: 00:13:03

the scene and, and he sees his son lying there dead in, the, on the roadway.

Craig Floyd: 00:13:10

we have video of what it was like for Chief Powder to, to come upon that scene

Craig Floyd: 00:13:16

and, how he was affected by that moment in his life that he'll never forget.

Craig Floyd: 00:13:21

Let's run that video.

Bobby Paudert: 00:13:25

I saw that Brandon lying on his back,

Bobby Paudert: 00:13:30

had been shot several times and he was facing up, and I walked up to him and I stood over him looking down at him,

Bobby Paudert: 00:13:40

and

Bobby Paudert: 00:13:44

my entire life just drained outta my body.

Bobby Paudert: 00:13:46

At that point, I would just.

Bobby Paudert: 00:13:48

It was the worst day of my life.

Bobby Paudert: 00:13:50

I was looking down at my son that had just been shot,

Bobby Paudert: 00:13:56

and I was standing there trying to decide what I needed to do and what

Bobby Paudert: 00:14:00

I needed to do as a police chief and what I needed to do as a father.

Bill Erfurth: 00:14:04

cra Crazy.

Bill Erfurth: 00:14:06

Crazy moment there.

Bill Erfurth: 00:14:07

And, I understand that, that the chief did everything he could to keep his wife at bay and in the vehicle because

Bill Erfurth: 00:14:14

he definitely did not want his wife to see her son in that condition.

Bill Erfurth: 00:14:20

And, and so it all unfolds and plays out from there, Mike.

Bill Erfurth: 00:14:26

Now the manhunt begins, the bolo is out.

Bill Erfurth: 00:14:30

Everyone's looking for this vehicle.

Bill Erfurth: 00:14:32

Where are you and how did you find out?

Mike Neal: 00:14:37

So I'm just out on regular patrol as a game warden.

Mike Neal: 00:14:43

I'd been outta the truck for a few minutes.

Mike Neal: 00:14:46

as a game warden you don't see very many game wardens 'cause

Mike Neal: 00:14:50

they're, spread out and they have to cover a lot of territory.

Mike Neal: 00:14:52

But I covered seven counties and I had communications with all seven counties.

Mike Neal: 00:14:58

So when I got back in the truck, all those radios were talking.

Mike Neal: 00:15:03

I was like, what is going on?

Mike Neal: 00:15:05

I had no idea what was going on.

Mike Neal: 00:15:07

And that's when I started learning the events that had happened, that

Mike Neal: 00:15:10

there was two officers down, most critical incidents that you debrief.

Mike Neal: 00:15:16

The main component in that is the breakdown of communication.

Mike Neal: 00:15:19

And this was no different.

Mike Neal: 00:15:22

they started putting out the information that it was a stolen white church van, with a MS 13 gang in it.

Mike Neal: 00:15:29

armed with AK 40 sevens and it was a head on the drug interdiction team.

Mike Neal: 00:15:33

And that's, what I responded to.

Mike Neal: 00:15:35

That's the call that I knew that I was going to, and I remember driving

Mike Neal: 00:15:42

and I pulled over on the side of the road and started preparing myself.

Mike Neal: 00:15:45

I grabbed an old vest, put it on, I grabbed my rifle out the

Mike Neal: 00:15:48

rack, hung it around my neck, put it in my lap, just slung it.

Mike Neal: 00:15:54

And I started driving.

Mike Neal: 00:15:57

I was pretty good ways from West Memphis at that point.

Mike Neal: 00:16:01

I told a little bit of a white lie.

Mike Neal: 00:16:02

I called my sergeant and I said, Hey, I know what's going on in West Memphis.

Mike Neal: 00:16:07

He was in West Memphis.

Mike Neal: 00:16:09

I told him, I said, I know what's going on there.

Mike Neal: 00:16:11

I'm pretty close.

Mike Neal: 00:16:12

Can I come help?

Mike Neal: 00:16:13

And I was game warden close.

Mike Neal: 00:16:15

I was over an hour away, but, nobody had to know that at the time.

Mike Neal: 00:16:19

And he said, yeah, get over here as quick as you can.

Mike Neal: 00:16:21

And that gave me the green light.

Mike Neal: 00:16:23

And I, lit a torch to the truck and drove as fast as the truck

Mike Neal: 00:16:27

would drive all the way to West Memphis to get in a gunfight.

Craig Floyd: 00:16:30

But at, that point, Mike, did you know that, they had

Craig Floyd: 00:16:34

spotted the vehicle in this parking lot of the Walmart or No, sir.

Craig Floyd: 00:16:37

Or were you just hoping to find it yourself?

Mike Neal: 00:16:40

No, we, we had no idea where they went.

Mike Neal: 00:16:43

And in the time of events here, from the time of the murders to the time that I get involved is about 90 minutes.

Mike Neal: 00:16:50

We're about an hour and a half.

Mike Neal: 00:16:51

So all the way over, I'm thinking, what if, how are we gonna do this?

Mike Neal: 00:16:56

How are we gonna handle it?

Mike Neal: 00:16:58

How are we gonna find these guys and hunt 'em down?

Mike Neal: 00:17:00

and then you got somebody on your other shoulder saying they're already gone.

Mike Neal: 00:17:04

They're not there, just a normal day.

Mike Neal: 00:17:07

That kind of thing.

Mike Neal: 00:17:08

And it was nowhere near a normal day.

Mike Neal: 00:17:11

it wasn't until I got into town actually was about to run outta gas.

Mike Neal: 00:17:17

I pulled over at the Horizon, shell gas station there in West Memphis, was getting fuel.

Mike Neal: 00:17:23

didn't realize even where I'd stopped.

Mike Neal: 00:17:26

but God has a way of, getting your attention and this was one of those moments.

Mike Neal: 00:17:30

Where it was time for me to focus and, 'cause I, if you know me, I'm a DD blonde haired, just all over the place.

Mike Neal: 00:17:38

And this was one of those heated moments that I needed to focus.

Mike Neal: 00:17:43

And as I was fueling my truck, I looked up and I could see the crime scene where Bill and Brandon were.

Mike Neal: 00:17:49

And it was, man, it was like, even, man, 15 years later, it's still like a kick in the gut.

Mike Neal: 00:17:57

it was a hard punch, but it.

Mike Neal: 00:17:59

What I needed at the moment to get focused.

Mike Neal: 00:18:03

I sure as heck didn't realize what I was about to incur.

Mike Neal: 00:18:08

I was in town a total of 15 minutes before I was in a gun fight and had no idea that was even coming.

Bill Erfurth: 00:18:15

So here you are, you're, driving around like everybody is.

Bill Erfurth: 00:18:19

Everyone's looking for this vehicle.

Bill Erfurth: 00:18:22

You're in this heightened sense of awareness and the adrenaline's pumping.

Bill Erfurth: 00:18:27

You come into the Walmart parking lot, let's play that clip.

Bill Erfurth: 00:18:31

When I started into the

Mike Neal: 00:18:32

parking lot and the gunfire started, I immediately

Mike Neal: 00:18:36

transitioning the rifle up into the windshield and started towards them.

Mike Neal: 00:18:42

The bullet started coming through the windshield.

Mike Neal: 00:18:44

They shot this pillar out completely.

Mike Neal: 00:18:47

Some of the rounds were coming over my head.

Mike Neal: 00:18:50

My headrest had a bullet hole in it.

Mike Neal: 00:18:53

I had laid across the console.

Mike Neal: 00:18:56

And was returning fire pretty much from the passenger seat.

Mike Neal: 00:19:00

And in the picture you can see the bullet holes stair stepping

Mike Neal: 00:19:04

coming across to the point he found where I was inside the truck.

Mike Neal: 00:19:08

And that's where he concentrated his fire at that point.

Mike Neal: 00:19:11

And I was doing the same thing to him.

Mike Neal: 00:19:13

Luckily I was able to get to him before he got to me.

Bill Erfurth: 00:19:18

Talk about that.

Bill Erfurth: 00:19:19

So here you are, you see what's going on.

Bill Erfurth: 00:19:23

They're actually engaged in a gunfight with some sheriff's deputies, I believe.

Bill Erfurth: 00:19:28

you see what's going on, you decide I'm just gonna crank this fricking truck up and get it going

Bill Erfurth: 00:19:35

as fast as I can through this parking lot, and I'm just gonna.

Bill Erfurth: 00:19:39

Crash the shit out.

Bill Erfurth: 00:19:41

These guys, you know what, what's going on?

Bill Erfurth: 00:19:44

You got the rifle up.

Bill Erfurth: 00:19:46

You're ready to fire as you're approaching them thinking that you're gonna ram their vehicle.

Bill Erfurth: 00:19:53

You're firing through your windshield as they're firing at you.

Bill Erfurth: 00:19:58

It's just wildness.

Bill Erfurth: 00:19:59

Talk about it.

Mike Neal: 00:20:00

Yeah, it was, it was a showdown, that's for sure.

Mike Neal: 00:20:04

I've always had that reputation that I'll use whatever means I have to, win the fight.

Mike Neal: 00:20:09

I'm not gonna play fair if I don't have to.

Mike Neal: 00:20:11

And I will hit you with my truck.

Mike Neal: 00:20:13

I've hit many since then with my truck.

Mike Neal: 00:20:15

it is a tool and I will use it as such.

Mike Neal: 00:20:18

And I teach my deputies the same thing.

Mike Neal: 00:20:20

We can replace the truck or we can't replace you.

Mike Neal: 00:20:23

game and fish taught us in the academy to shoot through our vehicles.

Mike Neal: 00:20:27

so that's what we did.

Mike Neal: 00:20:28

We knew, it was pretty cutting edge training back then, to fire through your windshield.

Mike Neal: 00:20:36

it's, being done now, but it's still not as popular.

Mike Neal: 00:20:40

but I knew it would work.

Mike Neal: 00:20:41

And as I was approaching them, I could see them firing on officers in front of me.

Mike Neal: 00:20:47

And I knew at that point that it was time to stop the killing.

Mike Neal: 00:20:51

'cause in my mind they'd killed two this morning and they'd killed two more right in front of me.

Mike Neal: 00:20:55

And I was, here to stop.

Mike Neal: 00:20:57

So as I'm approaching, he's standing out of the van and that's when I transitioned.

Mike Neal: 00:21:01

I pulled my rifle up, so I'm real redneck in this.

Mike Neal: 00:21:04

I got a left hand on the steering wheel and I got my rifle in my right hand and I'm charging in the battle and he turns.

Mike Neal: 00:21:11

And if you look at the video close, you can see him turn around and look at me.

Mike Neal: 00:21:14

And then he gets back in the van and starts backing up.

Mike Neal: 00:21:17

And I thought, I'm gonna hit you as hard as I can.

Mike Neal: 00:21:19

You're not getting outta here.

Mike Neal: 00:21:21

And I don't think they expected that they weren't expecting somebody to crash into him.

Mike Neal: 00:21:26

I played football my entire life.

Mike Neal: 00:21:27

I was a linebacker, so I took the fight to him.

Mike Neal: 00:21:30

I, I was a head hunter in football and I head hunter in this.

Mike Neal: 00:21:34

So at the last second, I remember them turning that van sideways.

Mike Neal: 00:21:41

I thought, oh, I got you now, I thought I'm gonna hit you and you're gonna roll over and blow up.

Mike Neal: 00:21:48

'cause that's what Michael Bay taught us.

Mike Neal: 00:21:49

Some bad boys, you hit somebody hard, they roll over and blow up.

Mike Neal: 00:21:52

So I was fully expecting it and it did not roll over.

Mike Neal: 00:21:56

And it didn't blow up.

Mike Neal: 00:21:57

They were immediately on the guns.

Mike Neal: 00:21:58

As soon as I hit the driver, pivots any seat.

Mike Neal: 00:22:01

Turns around.

Mike Neal: 00:22:02

what I know now is a, Taurus judge.

Mike Neal: 00:22:05

Back then, I was looking down the angry eye of an RPG as far as I

Mike Neal: 00:22:09

was concerned, and that's where I fired my first two rounds.

Mike Neal: 00:22:13

first two rounds, struck him here and here in the head with a, 2, 2 3.

Mike Neal: 00:22:19

So I knew, that gunfight was over.

Mike Neal: 00:22:22

And a gunfight, you're looking for three things, electricity, plumbing, and structure.

Mike Neal: 00:22:26

You knock out the electricity, the fight's over.

Mike Neal: 00:22:28

I knew that fight was finished, but I didn't know how many were in the van.

Mike Neal: 00:22:32

I immediately started taking gunfire.

Mike Neal: 00:22:35

This is after we've crashed into one another.

Mike Neal: 00:22:37

We're seven feet from one another.

Mike Neal: 00:22:39

He's shooting an ak.

Mike Neal: 00:22:40

I'm shooting a 2, 2 3, and the rounds start coming in the glass and shrapnels hitting me in the face.

Mike Neal: 00:22:46

I dove over in the passenger side and that's when I hit my head

Mike Neal: 00:22:49

on my laptop, split my forehead open, and give me a concussion.

Mike Neal: 00:22:53

And I was taking shrapnel down my left hand or left side.

Mike Neal: 00:22:57

My hands, my hip, and all I could remember thinking is Shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot faster.

Mike Neal: 00:23:04

And that's when I started returning fire and I think I wound up hitting him 22 times.

Mike Neal: 00:23:11

I was shooting, green tip, so it was going through my windshield, through the seat, through him hitting the door

Mike Neal: 00:23:17

and going through the door and hitting the concrete post on the other side.

Mike Neal: 00:23:20

So it was like little needles shooting through him.

Mike Neal: 00:23:23

that's why I talk about the plumbing.

Mike Neal: 00:23:25

if you can't shoot the electricity, you go for structure and plumbing,

Mike Neal: 00:23:28

but the plumbing, it takes a while to turn off electricity.

Mike Neal: 00:23:31

So he was able to continue fighting, and I remember thinking, why are you still shooting at me?

Mike Neal: 00:23:37

You, should not be shooting at me.

Mike Neal: 00:23:40

And that's when the sixth sound of my weapon going dry.

Mike Neal: 00:23:45

It clicks, I'm laying on top of it.

Mike Neal: 00:23:49

I'm still being shot at, I'm still taking incoming rounds, being hit with crap.

Mike Neal: 00:23:56

in those kind of situations, if you don't train for em's, not gonna happen.

Mike Neal: 00:23:59

You'll either rise to your level of training or you're gonna fall to your level of training.

Mike Neal: 00:24:03

At that point, I fell to my level of training and I was not able to reload my rifle.

Mike Neal: 00:24:08

honestly, looking back and studying things, it was probably a good thing.

Mike Neal: 00:24:12

my guardian angel was taking care of me, so that's when I decided it was time to evacuate Dodge.

Mike Neal: 00:24:18

And I threw it in reverse and held the truck to the floor and to my surprise, it was still running.

Mike Neal: 00:24:24

I went to backing away from the scene and did some free landscaping from Walmart.

Mike Neal: 00:24:28

I didn't even charge 'em.

Mike Neal: 00:24:29

Cleaned out all their bushes with my truck and some woman backed out and hit me.

Mike Neal: 00:24:33

I don't know what her deal was, but, that's my story.

Mike Neal: 00:24:36

I'll stick to that one.

Mike Neal: 00:24:37

She wasn't even in the car.

Mike Neal: 00:24:38

I backed into her, but, and that's when you see me exit the truck

Mike Neal: 00:24:41

and go behind the truck and take cover and try to do some self aid.

Bill Erfurth: 00:24:46

So let's talk a little bit.

Bill Erfurth: 00:24:47

Lemme add some, let's talk a little bit more about the truck.

Bill Erfurth: 00:24:49

So the truck's a big pickup truck.

Bill Erfurth: 00:24:51

It's your law enforcement police vehicle pickup truck.

Bill Erfurth: 00:24:54

You got a ramming bar on the front of the truck.

Bill Erfurth: 00:24:58

We're gonna talk about this.

Bill Erfurth: 00:24:59

Craig's gonna bring it up because, that's one of the beautiful

Bill Erfurth: 00:25:03

centerpieces at the National Law Enforcement Museum is your truck.

Bill Erfurth: 00:25:07

And, it's incredible because you look at this.

Bill Erfurth: 00:25:10

And as you had said, the, bullets are stairs stepping through the windshield

Bill Erfurth: 00:25:16

and, your windshield, it's just plastered full of gl of bullet holes.

Bill Erfurth: 00:25:21

So, you're in this pickup truck, you got the ramming bar on there.

Bill Erfurth: 00:25:25

The truck, the, truck's damaged in the front, but you exploded into this van of theirs.

Bill Erfurth: 00:25:31

How fast were you going?

Bill Erfurth: 00:25:33

state police estimates about 55 miles an hour.

Bill Erfurth: 00:25:37

and, you didn't, you crashed out, the adrenaline probably took over the, yeah.

Bill Erfurth: 00:25:42

Besides the seatbelt.

Bill Erfurth: 00:25:43

Never felt saving you from that.

Mike Neal: 00:25:44

I didn't even have a seatbelt on.

Mike Neal: 00:25:46

The airbag didn't deploy.

Mike Neal: 00:25:47

I didn't have a seatbelt.

Mike Neal: 00:25:48

That's what knocked be into the center section of the truck.

Mike Neal: 00:25:52

Honestly.

Mike Neal: 00:25:52

Wow.

Mike Neal: 00:25:52

It was the end because I broke the steering wheel with my body.

Mike Neal: 00:25:56

Went to the kind of the radio and air conditioner control system.

Mike Neal: 00:26:00

I was in that part.

Mike Neal: 00:26:01

And that's where I started firing from.

Mike Neal: 00:26:02

So I wasn't actually sitting in my seat when they started firing into the truck.

Mike Neal: 00:26:07

'cause that's what they were shooting at, was the, cockpit where I should have been.

Craig Floyd: 00:26:13

Did you have a vest on Mike?

Mike Neal: 00:26:14

No sir. it not one that was stopped.

Mike Neal: 00:26:17

7.62, but 39.

Mike Neal: 00:26:19

So I had a soft body armor.

Craig Floyd: 00:26:21

I was wondering about the impact on the steering wheel if you broke it.

Craig Floyd: 00:26:24

I'm just thinking that the trauma to your body must have been, tremendous

Craig Floyd: 00:26:28

and if you had a vest on it, it would help save your life in that situation.

Mike Neal: 00:26:32

It would've helped.

Mike Neal: 00:26:33

Yeah.

Mike Neal: 00:26:33

I was sore for a while and messed up my elbow, my left hand from holding on, but I still have problems with it.

Mike Neal: 00:26:40

15 years.

Craig Floyd: 00:26:42

Mike.

Craig Floyd: 00:26:43

Hey, Bill.

Craig Floyd: 00:26:43

Yeah, Bill, I, found out that, I did a little research and,

Craig Floyd: 00:26:48

Mike fired approximately 30 rounds into their vehicle.

Craig Floyd: 00:26:54

and, the father was shot 18 times.

Craig Floyd: 00:26:58

18 times.

Craig Floyd: 00:26:59

He hit him.

Craig Floyd: 00:27:00

The sun was, shot eight times.

Craig Floyd: 00:27:03

So this is a pretty good shot.

Craig Floyd: 00:27:05

he gets off 30 rounds and, and basically almost all of 'em hit their targets and, those two end up, dying eventually.

Craig Floyd: 00:27:14

But, those stats are just amazing.

Craig Floyd: 00:27:16

And then how many, I think there was at least, Close to 20 gunshots,

Craig Floyd: 00:27:21

in your vehicle, Mike, that, mainly through the windshield, right?

Craig Floyd: 00:27:25

Yes, sir.

Mike Neal: 00:27:25

Yep.

Mike Neal: 00:27:26

Straight through the windshield, through the back, through the

Mike Neal: 00:27:27

seats, everywhere I should have been, had bullet holes in it.

Craig Floyd: 00:27:30

Unbelievable.

Craig Floyd: 00:27:31

God was looking out for you that day, my friend.

Craig Floyd: 00:27:33

Absolutely.

Bill Erfurth: 00:27:34

Yeah.

Bill Erfurth: 00:27:34

Crazy.

Bill Erfurth: 00:27:35

Crazy.

Bill Erfurth: 00:27:36

Craig and I are on the same page here, because that was exactly what I was

Bill Erfurth: 00:27:40

gonna talk about, how many rounds that were filed, fired, and quite frankly.

Bill Erfurth: 00:27:46

We'll talk about this a little bit more, but everybody's gotta see this, truck of yours, it's and it's on full display.

Bill Erfurth: 00:27:54

It's, one of the highlights at the National Law Enforcement Museum in Washington, dc So I

Bill Erfurth: 00:27:59

want to talk to you now more about the warrior mindset, right?

Bill Erfurth: 00:28:05

Cop to cop, people that have been in the military, people that have

Bill Erfurth: 00:28:08

been in these critical high risk situations in law enforcement.

Bill Erfurth: 00:28:15

there's something to be said about nothing is more exhilarating than the hunting of another human.

Bill Erfurth: 00:28:24

And the reason that I say that is when I was working and I was in the warrants

Bill Erfurth: 00:28:30

bureau, in the fugitive section on the wall, there was a quote, a famous quote.

Bill Erfurth: 00:28:37

It was actually from Ernest Hemingway, and I'll, read the whole thing eventually here.

Bill Erfurth: 00:28:43

But it was something, and we, would look at it and it was like, nothing

Bill Erfurth: 00:28:48

is more exhilarating and dangerous than the hunting of another man.

Bill Erfurth: 00:28:54

And it was one of those things that was on the wall that always reminded me like a sports team.

Bill Erfurth: 00:29:03

Like a football team and they all go out and they touch that sign or that, that

Bill Erfurth: 00:29:08

motto for from their college or the, or a hockey team that does the same thing.

Bill Erfurth: 00:29:13

And it, and it reminds you of your mission, let's say.

Bill Erfurth: 00:29:19

So let's talk about that whole heightened sense of awareness.

Bill Erfurth: 00:29:24

You say you put the vest on, I'm probably sure you're sitting up, and, the adrenaline's pumping and

Bill Erfurth: 00:29:32

you're sensory overload, and you're looking around and everything because you know that it's about to happen.

Bill Erfurth: 00:29:40

That shit's gonna hit the fan, right?

Bill Erfurth: 00:29:44

Let's, talk about that.

Bill Erfurth: 00:29:45

Let's talk about that whole thing about how there's nothing more dangerous or exhilarating than the hunting of

Bill Erfurth: 00:29:53

another person, an armed, and let's qu, let's qualify that and say the hunting of a criminal rabid animal.

Mike Neal: 00:30:06

it's unbelievable experience.

Mike Neal: 00:30:08

The, adrenaline, like you say is, will make your body do things that

Mike Neal: 00:30:12

you couldn't imagine and absorb things that you couldn't imagine.

Mike Neal: 00:30:16

And this was no different.

Mike Neal: 00:30:18

just like the impact.

Mike Neal: 00:30:19

I never, I don't even remember the impact, honestly.

Mike Neal: 00:30:24

I never remember being scared.

Mike Neal: 00:30:26

I remember at one point in that gun fight.

Mike Neal: 00:30:29

I couldn't hear anything.

Mike Neal: 00:30:30

I, never heard my rifle go off.

Mike Neal: 00:30:33

I never heard theirs, but I could hear the cracking of the

Mike Neal: 00:30:37

truck, the truck coming apart and the bullets coming through.

Mike Neal: 00:30:42

I can still hear those sitting in my chair, and I can hear my buffer spring

Mike Neal: 00:30:47

inside that, that rifle going, Ching, And knowing that he's on the other end.

Mike Neal: 00:30:54

Putting rounds same way into my truck.

Mike Neal: 00:30:57

It was, it's an unbelievable feeling.

Mike Neal: 00:31:00

thank God I was able to live through it.

Mike Neal: 00:31:03

but yeah, the, adrenaline that lasts for a while, but when it stops, you're down.

Mike Neal: 00:31:09

You better be ready 'cause you're gonna be taking a nap.

Mike Neal: 00:31:13

I've been on multiple calls like that where we've hunted people and you're right.

Mike Neal: 00:31:18

hunting another person is, unbelievable.

Mike Neal: 00:31:24

'cause they possibly have the skills that you do and you, don't know what you're up against.

Bill Erfurth: 00:31:31

that, that adrenaline dump after the situation is, Crazy.

Bill Erfurth: 00:31:38

if, no one's ever experienced it, and then it's very few people that

Bill Erfurth: 00:31:41

experienced that except maybe first responders and, military type people.

Bill Erfurth: 00:31:47

And it's just something that I thought we should talk about because it's certainly a different mindset and

Bill Erfurth: 00:31:53

you have that mindset because just because you're in the military or law

Bill Erfurth: 00:31:57

enforcement doesn't necessarily mean that you can rise to that occasion.

Bill Erfurth: 00:32:01

And you rose to that occasion in a number of ways, and I know Craig

Bill Erfurth: 00:32:05

is gonna talk about that because this wasn't your first rodeo.

Bill Erfurth: 00:32:09

And then you also do some training that we're gonna talk about.

Bill Erfurth: 00:32:12

But I wanna read this quote to you because I think it's an amazing quote, but this is

Bill Erfurth: 00:32:17

from, this is what I referenced earlier that we have on the wall.

Bill Erfurth: 00:32:22

It was something that as soon as you walked out the door, you looked at this.

Bill Erfurth: 00:32:25

Because when we were chasing fugitives.

Bill Erfurth: 00:32:29

You are hunting people, essentially.

Bill Erfurth: 00:32:31

And so Ernest Hemingway says there is no hunting, like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed

Bill Erfurth: 00:32:40

men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter.

Bill Erfurth: 00:32:47

It's pretty heavy duty.

Mike Neal: 00:32:49

I don't hunt, I don't, fish.

Mike Neal: 00:32:52

I don't either.

Mike Neal: 00:32:53

No, I.

Mike Neal: 00:32:56

what's the thrill of putting a salt lick out and luring a deer to it and shooting it?

Bill Erfurth: 00:33:01

that's not shooting back at you.

Bill Erfurth: 00:33:02

It's not gonna kill you's, not evil, mean, the hunting of man.

Bill Erfurth: 00:33:05

There is nothing, that can compare to that.

Mike Neal: 00:33:09

I've never heard that quote, but that makes a tremendous amount of sense in my life.

Mike Neal: 00:33:15

So I love it.

Mike Neal: 00:33:15

Looked by that.

Craig Floyd: 00:33:17

How does a fish and wildlife officer, which you were at

Craig Floyd: 00:33:20

the time of the shootout, not fish or not hunt, that's wasn't game.

Craig Floyd: 00:33:25

Morden strange, wasn't great.

Mike Neal: 00:33:27

I wasn't a greatest game morden out there.

Mike Neal: 00:33:30

they'd say, what kind of fish is that, Neal?

Mike Neal: 00:33:32

I'm like, oh, it's a dead fish.

Mike Neal: 00:33:34

I don't know, so I had a lot to learn.

Craig Floyd: 00:33:38

Mike, this is interesting because, one of the stats that I, cite quite often be showing that most law

Craig Floyd: 00:33:45

enforcement officers will go their entire career without ever firing their weapon in the line of duty.

Craig Floyd: 00:33:52

and there was a survey once, not too long ago that said 73% of the

Craig Floyd: 00:33:57

officers surveyed had never fired their weapon in the line of duty.

Craig Floyd: 00:34:02

Probably never would.

Craig Floyd: 00:34:04

you're different, you're a different breed.

Craig Floyd: 00:34:07

and you certainly have that warrior mentality that when push comes to shove and, force is necessary and

Craig Floyd: 00:34:15

heroes need to step forward, you seem to be the one to do that.

Craig Floyd: 00:34:19

And you told me you've been involved in six shooting incidents in your career.

Craig Floyd: 00:34:25

the one we just described being one of them, obviously, but.

Craig Floyd: 00:34:29

Tell me about the other five.

Craig Floyd: 00:34:31

I can't imagine any officer being involved in six shooting incidents.

Mike Neal: 00:34:36

Yeah, that's, I'm that magnet kind of a guy.

Mike Neal: 00:34:39

But this is a, something I like to tell officers is if you're not hunting evil, evil will hunt you.

Mike Neal: 00:34:46

So you always have to be looking and hunting evil because it's

Mike Neal: 00:34:49

gonna catch you on the day that you're not hunting evil.

Mike Neal: 00:34:53

And that's where officers get in trouble.

Mike Neal: 00:34:55

That's where they get H hurt.

Mike Neal: 00:34:57

And I've quoted this even in the, documentary is, it's not a matter of if this is gonna happen,

Mike Neal: 00:35:02

it's when, especially in today's times and those, stats are gonna

Mike Neal: 00:35:05

change, I feel 70%, never get into a gun fight or any of that.

Mike Neal: 00:35:10

I feel like those are, probably changing as we speak because the violence in this world today is unlike it's ever been.

Mike Neal: 00:35:20

so viewers listen up.

Mike Neal: 00:35:21

It's not a matter if it's when you're gonna get into this and you better be ready for it and

Mike Neal: 00:35:25

hunt that evil, but like you said, I've been in six incidences where gunfires occur, or death.

Mike Neal: 00:35:33

LA latest one was in August with the US Marshals, where they were ambushed and shot to pieces.

Mike Neal: 00:35:40

With a 300, a guy was shooting an automatic 300 blackout at us.

Mike Neal: 00:35:46

even if sheriff.

Mike Neal: 00:35:47

I still get shot at for some reason.

Mike Neal: 00:35:49

So it's it's that mentality of when it's going down, when the fight is there, I wanna be there.

Mike Neal: 00:35:57

I wanna be a part of that.

Mike Neal: 00:36:00

I know what I'm doing.

Mike Neal: 00:36:01

I don't know if you know what you're doing or not and move over and let me in there.

Mike Neal: 00:36:04

I'll take care of it.

Mike Neal: 00:36:05

It's that kind of mentality that gets guys like me in, trouble, puts us in firefights.

Mike Neal: 00:36:12

So I.

Bill Erfurth: 00:36:15

I think that's, that simply makes you a leader, right?

Bill Erfurth: 00:36:18

You're a leader.

Bill Erfurth: 00:36:19

And that's why I started this off saying, this is truly some ballsy shit that we're gonna talk about here.

Bill Erfurth: 00:36:27

And it takes somebody like you and that mentality to be a winner and to survive.

Mike Neal: 00:36:34

You.

Mike Neal: 00:36:34

You think about her, we've done some quotes her stated, for every 100 men.

Mike Neal: 00:36:40

80 of 'em shouldn't even be there.

Mike Neal: 00:36:42

10 or nothing.

Mike Neal: 00:36:42

But targets, nine are warriors, but one of them is the ultimate warrior and he'll bring you the rest of them back.

Mike Neal: 00:36:50

And that's what you have to be today or anytime in law enforcement to be honest with you.

Mike Neal: 00:36:55

Wanna be that, guy, you have to be that warrior.

Mike Neal: 00:36:59

You have to have that mentality or you're not gonna go home to your family.

Mike Neal: 00:37:02

And if you don't have that mentality every day when you

Mike Neal: 00:37:05

wake up and go to work, that not today, I'm not dying today.

Mike Neal: 00:37:09

This is not my day.

Mike Neal: 00:37:10

I'm going home to my kids, then you're probably in trouble.

Mike Neal: 00:37:14

So you better get the mentality and, get the training and keep your butt in gear.

Mike Neal: 00:37:20

So Mike, you

Bill Erfurth: 00:37:21

you mentioned to Craig, you mentioned to all of us about, about training and about that mentality.

Bill Erfurth: 00:37:29

It's not if it's gonna happen when, but when it's gonna happen.

Bill Erfurth: 00:37:34

And we got a clip of that.

Bill Erfurth: 00:37:35

It's a good clip.

Bill Erfurth: 00:37:36

Let's play that.

Bill Erfurth: 00:37:37

Everybody should hear it.

Mike Neal: 00:37:38

And I, say it's, kinda like being a prisoner that day.

Mike Neal: 00:37:42

It's always gonna be with me for the rest of my life.

Mike Neal: 00:37:47

I tell other officers, in training, I say, it's not a matter of if

Mike Neal: 00:37:53

it's gonna happen to you, it's when it's gonna happen to you.

Mike Neal: 00:37:58

And if you're not thinking that way, you might wanna start.

Mike Neal: 00:38:02

If you don't wanna start, you might wanna reevaluate your job because.

Mike Neal: 00:38:07

Look at me.

Mike Neal: 00:38:08

I'm a game warden.

Mike Neal: 00:38:09

Look what I got in.

Mike Neal: 00:38:12

it's not.

Craig Floyd: 00:38:20

when you were talking there, Mike, I, couldn't help but remember a story.

Craig Floyd: 00:38:24

I, was, at a restaurant with my wife and, the waiter was a young guy and

Craig Floyd: 00:38:29

we, got to chatting about what his, plans for the future were, et cetera.

Craig Floyd: 00:38:34

And he said to me he had, originally applied to become a police officer at his local police department.

Craig Floyd: 00:38:41

and he was, in the academy.

Craig Floyd: 00:38:45

then, a young officer on the first day on, on the job was shot and killed in a, neighboring, county.

Craig Floyd: 00:38:54

And what he said to himself?

Craig Floyd: 00:38:56

I don't think I wanna be a cop anymore.

Craig Floyd: 00:38:59

and good for him and I, applauded him for coming to that realization.

Mike Neal: 00:39:03

Good for him.

Craig Floyd: 00:39:04

But I think it's, something that maybe some people

Craig Floyd: 00:39:07

don't think about when they apply to become a police officer that.

Craig Floyd: 00:39:13

you gotta be prepared for those, moments where courage takes over and leaders step forward and heroes become heroes.

Craig Floyd: 00:39:21

And I think, anybody thinking about a police career needs to be thinking in those terms.

Craig Floyd: 00:39:27

But knowing that most officers, the vast majority are gonna go their entire careers, probably

Craig Floyd: 00:39:33

never fire their weapon, probably never get into a gunfight.

Craig Floyd: 00:39:36

The, likes of what we described here today.

Craig Floyd: 00:39:39

You gotta be prepared for that moment and and hopefully people

Craig Floyd: 00:39:43

understand that when they take on the job, as you've explained.

Craig Floyd: 00:39:46

one thing that.

Craig Floyd: 00:39:48

Go back to was the traffic stop.

Craig Floyd: 00:39:51

obviously we have years that we've looked at that traffic stop seen the video, we know what happened, but what,

Craig Floyd: 00:39:58

in your mind, could have been done differently by those officers that might have, changed things for the better?

Craig Floyd: 00:40:06

it's hard to imagine a guy's got an AK 47 and he's willing to, lose his own life, to take yours.

Craig Floyd: 00:40:13

how do you deal with that situation?

Mike Neal: 00:40:15

I don't think they could have stopped it, per se.

Mike Neal: 00:40:19

maybe a little bit more officer, security minded.

Mike Neal: 00:40:23

They got a, maybe a little complacent.

Mike Neal: 00:40:26

I'm not gonna say they were, they didn't take the, boys a threat honestly.

Mike Neal: 00:40:33

and going back to training, you never turn your back on gunfire, first of all.

Mike Neal: 00:40:40

So if you watch the videos.

Mike Neal: 00:40:43

The boy comes out and the first person he shoots is Bill Evans.

Mike Neal: 00:40:47

And Brandon's standing there and Brandon reacts to the fight.

Mike Neal: 00:40:51

And then the fire gunfire starts, and then Brandon goes back to old

Mike Neal: 00:40:55

school training, get gain, cover, return fire, those kind of things.

Mike Neal: 00:41:00

And I teach law enforcement now on the range.

Mike Neal: 00:41:04

You don't have time.

Mike Neal: 00:41:05

There's sometimes you get caught and you don't have time to get covered.

Mike Neal: 00:41:08

And the best cover down range is what lead.

Mike Neal: 00:41:10

If you're putting accurate shot placement on them, they're not shooting back accurate at you, I promise you.

Mike Neal: 00:41:17

So when the gunfire starts, you immediately turn to the gunfire, return fire, those kind of things.

Mike Neal: 00:41:23

Those kind of training and mindset and having that tool in that tool belt when these things happen are, so important.

Mike Neal: 00:41:30

Never turn your back on gunfire, there was a second there where the boys weapon malfunctions.

Mike Neal: 00:41:38

He has to stop.

Mike Neal: 00:41:39

And you think about his mindset, you wanna talk about mindset.

Mike Neal: 00:41:41

That boy was very dangerous.

Mike Neal: 00:41:44

He's 16 years old.

Mike Neal: 00:41:45

He's, attacking two armed law enforcement officers that are trained.

Mike Neal: 00:41:49

And he didn't have any hesitation in him.

Mike Neal: 00:41:51

He stopped, clears a weapon in the middle of a gunfight.

Mike Neal: 00:41:55

I've seen officers cross the us it couldn't get it done at training, much less in a gunfight.

Mike Neal: 00:42:00

He stops, clears a weapon, and then starts shooting again.

Mike Neal: 00:42:03

But in those two or three seconds.

Mike Neal: 00:42:06

if we'd had that appropriate training, I think Brandon could have ended it.

Mike Neal: 00:42:10

I think he could have broke leather and had a couple of shots on target.

Mike Neal: 00:42:15

And, this day would've probably changed dramatically.

Mike Neal: 00:42:19

Honestly.

Bill Erfurth: 00:42:21

what's really interesting about what you said and how policing and the world has basically evolved.

Bill Erfurth: 00:42:28

As I remember, I was a, new sergeant and one of the guys on my squad had, Punched and knocked out a 14 or

Bill Erfurth: 00:42:38

15-year-old teenage boy that attacked him, and everybody was like, woo, buddy.

Bill Erfurth: 00:42:44

Oh my God.

Bill Erfurth: 00:42:45

You just put your hands on a teenager, you knocked some kid out.

Bill Erfurth: 00:42:50

And at the time, that was a really big deal, putting your hands on a kid.

Bill Erfurth: 00:42:58

Fast forward to today.

Bill Erfurth: 00:43:01

Kids are shooting each other in schools.

Bill Erfurth: 00:43:04

Yeah.

Bill Erfurth: 00:43:04

Crazy ass shit.

Bill Erfurth: 00:43:06

And kids oftentimes now are, and from that point forward when that happened,

Bill Erfurth: 00:43:13

when he punched him and knocked him out, kids are more volatile out of control.

Bill Erfurth: 00:43:17

They don't even think of the repercussions and, can clearly be dangerous.

Bill Erfurth: 00:43:25

And the public has gotten to accept that now, where before it was almost a little bit taboo.

Bill Erfurth: 00:43:32

You're

Mike Neal: 00:43:32

exactly

Bill Erfurth: 00:43:33

right.

Craig Floyd: 00:43:36

maybe to, come to a, bit of a closing here, but I wanted to

Craig Floyd: 00:43:40

make sure we acknowledge two people that we didn't talk about earlier.

Craig Floyd: 00:43:43

and that was Sheriff Dick Busby and, his Chief enforcement Officer, chief Deputy Wa Ren.

Craig Floyd: 00:43:50

those were the two officers that spotted the, van in the Walmart.

Craig Floyd: 00:43:54

Parking lot, got involved in the initial shootout there and were critically injured, both of them.

Craig Floyd: 00:44:01

and it was really Mike Neal ramming his vehicle in into the assailants that, saved their lives.

Craig Floyd: 00:44:08

they very likely would've been shot and killed, if, those, bad guys had their way.

Craig Floyd: 00:44:14

Mike just, wanted to acknowledge, your heroic efforts there to save their

Craig Floyd: 00:44:19

lives, but also, The sacrifice that Dick Busby and wa Ren made in this incident.

Craig Floyd: 00:44:26

Mike, you and I, got together at that officer of the month luncheon in 2011.

Craig Floyd: 00:44:31

And we honored you for what you had done in this incident we described here today.

Craig Floyd: 00:44:37

but one thing you said to me that day, yeah, you knew we

Craig Floyd: 00:44:39

were building this national law enforcement museum at the time.

Craig Floyd: 00:44:43

it was still seven years, in the making.

Craig Floyd: 00:44:46

but you and I didn't know that.

Craig Floyd: 00:44:48

All you knew was that you wanted your story, your truck that was used in that, critical shoot out with these, evil.

Craig Floyd: 00:44:57

Men and, 16-year-old son, in that museum, to basically make a statement that, this is what officers sometimes

Craig Floyd: 00:45:07

have to deal with, and that the public sometimes doesn't fully appreciate the

Craig Floyd: 00:45:11

level of, selflessness the, sacrifices that officers are, forced to make.

Craig Floyd: 00:45:18

I talked about it at the intro.

Craig Floyd: 00:45:19

I said, Any, good officer, and there are about 800,000 of them in this country, must be willing

Craig Floyd: 00:45:28

to put their lives on the line for the safety and welfare of others.

Craig Floyd: 00:45:32

In other words, you've gotta care more about the people you're trying to protect than you care about yourself.

Craig Floyd: 00:45:37

And I think that's what your story, that's what that truck and that museum is all about.

Craig Floyd: 00:45:43

that truck is on permanent display and your story is on permanent display in the National Law Enforcement Museum.

Craig Floyd: 00:45:50

I don't know if you knew this, but, the exhibit installers, the

Craig Floyd: 00:45:53

people that created all those exhibits for us and, took all the.

Craig Floyd: 00:45:59

equipment and, artifacts that are on display.

Craig Floyd: 00:46:02

They said putting your truck on the platform that it now sits on, was

Craig Floyd: 00:46:07

the toughest part of building the National Law Enforcement Museum.

Craig Floyd: 00:46:12

we, did it.

Craig Floyd: 00:46:13

Welcome to my life.

Bill Erfurth: 00:46:13

Yeah.

Bill Erfurth: 00:46:14

And

Craig Floyd: 00:46:14

was it easy?

Bill Erfurth: 00:46:16

And more so than the helicopter that hangs in.

Bill Erfurth: 00:46:18

There's great,

Craig Floyd: 00:46:19

more so than the helicopter hanging from the rafters.

Craig Floyd: 00:46:21

But, you, went through a lot of machinations to get us that

Craig Floyd: 00:46:25

truck and, make sure that we could, just put it on way.

Craig Floyd: 00:46:28

Were they gonna crush it?

Craig Floyd: 00:46:28

Tell story.

Craig Floyd: 00:46:29

Yeah.

Mike Neal: 00:46:30

They were gonna crush the truck.

Mike Neal: 00:46:31

So yes.

Mike Neal: 00:46:32

Glad they

Bill Erfurth: 00:46:33

so much better use of it.

Bill Erfurth: 00:46:34

Crazy.

Bill Erfurth: 00:46:35

so wait, let's, we, can't forget, we can't forget to talk about Mike at the White House.

Bill Erfurth: 00:46:43

No.

Craig Floyd: 00:46:45

Congressional medal.

Craig Floyd: 00:46:46

That's the Valour winner.

Mike Neal: 00:46:49

Yeah, that was, that was a lot of fun.

Mike Neal: 00:46:51

I was, a old game warden say, and I was a fish outta pond, that's for sure.

Mike Neal: 00:46:55

They, they called us over redneck to come to DC and I showed up in Class A or it was an honor guard uniform.

Mike Neal: 00:47:04

I was on the honor guard.

Mike Neal: 00:47:05

I looked like the country pimp had showed up to the white

Mike Neal: 00:47:11

man.

Mike Neal: 00:47:11

I was so nervous being there.

Mike Neal: 00:47:13

I was waiting in the wings and they were, telling the story to call me up and it's all on YouTube video.

Mike Neal: 00:47:19

You can watch it.

Mike Neal: 00:47:20

they called me up and as I'm walking up here, I thought, man, I'm gonna give the vice president a coin.

Mike Neal: 00:47:26

So I start digging in my pocket.

Mike Neal: 00:47:28

don't do that when you're walking up to the president.

Mike Neal: 00:47:30

First of all, that's not a good idea.

Mike Neal: 00:47:31

You can get shot.

Mike Neal: 00:47:32

But, I pull outta coin and I, I hand him the coin.

Mike Neal: 00:47:37

surprised.

Mike Neal: 00:47:37

We talk for a second.

Mike Neal: 00:47:40

I turned around and faced the crowd and Joe reaches over to grab the medals and I thought I should go to parade rest.

Mike Neal: 00:47:48

So I go to parade rest and I throw my arms behind me about the time he's reaching over me to put the medal

Mike Neal: 00:47:54

on him, and I force Gump the vice president on national television.

Mike Neal: 00:47:59

I hit him right in a junk and he said, oh, in my ear.

Mike Neal: 00:48:02

And I thought, oh my God,

Mike Neal: 00:48:06

Yeah, that's, that's the way Mike Neal's life is just gotta fly by the seat of your pants here.

Mike Neal: 00:48:11

But.

Bill Erfurth: 00:48:12

we got some great pictures that, that we see you there getting them pre Presidential

Bill Erfurth: 00:48:19

Medal of Valor and we've got some great pictures that, actually it was you, Craig and I altogether, yeah.

Bill Erfurth: 00:48:26

At, the dedication of the National Law Enforcement Museum standing up above that truck.

Bill Erfurth: 00:48:32

So those are some, great memories.

Dennis Collins: 00:48:35

Good memory.

Dennis Collins: 00:48:36

Billy and Craig and and Mike, I have to step in at this point.

Dennis Collins: 00:48:40

We could go on Mike for the rest of this day and for several other days.

Dennis Collins: 00:48:45

Every time I hear your story repeated, it brings back the same feeling I had when I saw it for the first time.

Dennis Collins: 00:48:53

And it is amazing.

Dennis Collins: 00:48:56

I. A lot of the things you said today.

Dennis Collins: 00:48:59

I hope our listeners, our viewers, were listening carefully to what you said.

Dennis Collins: 00:49:03

I think the key phrase of the day has to do with mindset.

Dennis Collins: 00:49:09

Has to do with mindset.

Dennis Collins: 00:49:10

It's not, if it's gonna happen, it's when it's gonna happen.

Dennis Collins: 00:49:14

That's not only a lesson for law enforcement.

Dennis Collins: 00:49:16

That's a lesson for life to be prepared and, You know what I kept thinking as you were talking?

Dennis Collins: 00:49:23

Thank God you weren't, eliminated.

Dennis Collins: 00:49:26

Your job wasn't eliminated by defund or defame the police or whatever.

Dennis Collins: 00:49:30

This BS is going on.

Dennis Collins: 00:49:32

You were on duty.

Dennis Collins: 00:49:33

Thank God that day.

Dennis Collins: 00:49:34

Just think about that.

Dennis Collins: 00:49:35

If you, Mike Neal hadn't been on duty that day, who knows what would've happened?

Dennis Collins: 00:49:40

And that's no slight or no inference to any law enforcement, but you saw what needed to be done.

Dennis Collins: 00:49:46

You did it and you finished the situation.

Dennis Collins: 00:49:50

You completed your assignment.

Dennis Collins: 00:49:51

Little did you know when you started that day, that would be part of your assignment.

Dennis Collins: 00:49:56

I doubt that is inspiring.

Dennis Collins: 00:49:59

That is motivating.

Dennis Collins: 00:50:01

I hope other law enforcement officers will listen to your story.

Dennis Collins: 00:50:05

Again, it's been out there, but again, and never forget it because it is a real lesson.

Dennis Collins: 00:50:12

We need law enforcement officers in on patrol out in the streets, taking care of business even though

Dennis Collins: 00:50:19

they don't even know sometimes what the business is gonna be.

Dennis Collins: 00:50:22

They're ready for it.

Dennis Collins: 00:50:25

you are truly a hero behind the badge.

Dennis Collins: 00:50:28

What a great story.

Dennis Collins: 00:50:30

Thank you for sharing it with our listeners and viewers.

Dennis Collins: 00:50:34

this has been an interview with Sheriff Mike Neal.

Dennis Collins: 00:50:37

He wasn't always a sheriff.

Dennis Collins: 00:50:39

He recounted today what happened to him, what, 15 years ago, right?

Dennis Collins: 00:50:44

A fateful day occurred.

Dennis Collins: 00:50:46

If you haven't heard the whole edition of this podcast, wind it Back, rewind it and listen to it.

Dennis Collins: 00:50:52

You will not believe this story.

Dennis Collins: 00:50:54

You will not.

Dennis Collins: 00:50:56

So this podcast, by the way, is brought to you by Citizens Behind the Badge, the leading voice of

Dennis Collins: 00:51:03

the American people to support the men and women of law enforcement.

Dennis Collins: 00:51:09

if you would like more information to join the.

Dennis Collins: 00:51:12

Hundreds of thousands of your fellow Americans who are

Dennis Collins: 00:51:15

supporting and getting involved with supporting law enforcement.

Dennis Collins: 00:51:20

It's citizens behind the badge.org.

Dennis Collins: 00:51:24

That's Citizens Behind the Badge DO org.

Dennis Collins: 00:51:26

Please join us in our efforts to highlight heroes.

Dennis Collins: 00:51:31

Like Mike Neal, so that we never forget.

Dennis Collins: 00:51:34

We'll be back soon with a lot more stories.

Dennis Collins: 00:51:37

We've got a lot of real stories about real cops coming up.

Dennis Collins: 00:51:40

We promise to always tell you the truth about law enforcement, and

Dennis Collins: 00:51:45

we promise to blow up the fake news promulgated by the media.

Dennis Collins: 00:51:50

Thanks again for watching.

Dennis Collins: 00:51:51

Thanks for listening.

Dennis Collins: 00:51:52

It's Dennis Collins.

Dennis Collins: 00:51:53

Craig, Floyd and Bill Erfurth will be back next time with another great, heroic story.